Posted: Jul 06, 2011 10:19 am
rJD wrote:Dawkins dropped a bollock here, another example of his tendency to be "tone deaf". Watson was perfectly justified to say that being approached by a stranger in a lift at 4am was unsettling, and asking people to be a bit more sensitive, which is all she did. For Dawkins to mock her the way he did was totally unnecessary and out of proportion to what she'd actually said, and I don't blame Watson for being pissed off with it, and with him, and reacting to it.
Charlou wrote:I read Richard Dawkins' response that PZ Myers linked to ( http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011 ... nt-4309418 ) ...
A few thoughts ...
A woman may feel trapped within the confines of an elevator simply because the man is bigger/stronger and physically capable of preventing her from pressing a button and getting off.
The assumption that the man may have ill intentions simply because he's male is perhaps an insult to men, particularly to an innocent man with only friendly intentions.
Some men do have ill intentions and do overpower women to carry their ill intentions out.
Many women are very aware of this, either through anecdote or personal experience, or both. Many women are wary because of this.
It's a pragmatic position to be defensive. Pragmatic. Not morally right or wrong, just a practical response to what one knows about reality.
I wonder if the man had looked like a middle eastern, possibly muslim, man, whether this woman's concerns would have been treated less dismissively by Richard Dawkins.
And
A comment on PZ's blog also says what I think:
Posted by: Adam Lee | July 3, 2011 9:04 PM
I'm incredibly disappointed to hear that those ignorant, crass and sexist comments really were from Richard Dawkins. He's said much more rational and sensible things about sexism in the past, and it's a tremendous letdown to hear him now so casually dismissing the experiences and complaints of Western feminists. Shame on him.
You are kidding, right?MattHunX wrote:And honestly, what does she expect to happen in a bar, at 4:00am, with potentially drunk and/or potentially sexually aroused individuals? A little naive, I feel.
To all the men people who are saying 'it's a storm in a teacup' or 'she should get over herself' or 'she has nothing to complain about', how many of you are likely to be the ones who post on threads about rape saying things like that comment above? We've been there, got the t-shirt, the one that reads 'I'm dressed like a tart so it's ok to rape me'.
There's a word for what Dickie has done here, INVALIDATION.
A quick lesson in invalidation
Here is a conversation I had yesterday. I was trying to explain the basic concept of invalidation.
S: Have you ever been crying and someone said "Don't cry"?
E: Yes
S: Did it help?
E: No
S: Have you ever been worried and someone said "Don't worry"?
E: Yes
S: Did it help?
E: No
S: Have you ever been angry and someone said "Don't get angry"?
E: Yes
S: Did it help?
E: No
So maybe that is the world's shortest course on invalidation!
Oh, but wait! The sooner women get used to being patronised, and having their feelings and concerns invalidated, the better, eh guys? That way, when they just put up and shut up, whatever happens is their own fault.