Posted: Nov 20, 2011 12:23 am
Thanks for that zoon. Well, having read about qi now, it sounds like a good case study for this idea.
I doubt that many on this forum would believe that qi exists. But qi is said to have physical effects, so it should be possible to test for it. Just say some experiments were done that were consistent with a particular version of qi, and this led to a theory comprising a set of equations that described qi's behaviour, which was tested and confirmed by many independent scientific experiments.
Then I expect that theologians would rapidly adapt to saying that the natural world consists of anything explicable in terms of, matter, energy or qi, and that anything not fitting that is supernatural. So we would have yet another enlargement of the set of 'natural' things, and a diminution of the supernatural set, to suit the theologians' objectives.
That's another great case study. Say this HME exists. Then it must have some properties, one of which is an ability to be converted into physical energy. If we could learn those properties, then HME would come to be regarded as part of the natural world, because we would be able to describe its behaviour, perhaps using Teuton's elliptical HME field equation, which would rank up there with Einstein's gravitation field equation and the Schrodinger equation as objects of scientific awe and veneration.
The more I think about this, the more I am convinced that when people say 'supernatural' they just mean "that which we currently do not understand", despite the theologians' and religious apologists' strenuous objections that that is not what they mean at all.
I doubt that many on this forum would believe that qi exists. But qi is said to have physical effects, so it should be possible to test for it. Just say some experiments were done that were consistent with a particular version of qi, and this led to a theory comprising a set of equations that described qi's behaviour, which was tested and confirmed by many independent scientific experiments.
Then I expect that theologians would rapidly adapt to saying that the natural world consists of anything explicable in terms of, matter, energy or qi, and that anything not fitting that is supernatural. So we would have yet another enlargement of the set of 'natural' things, and a diminution of the supernatural set, to suit the theologians' objectives.
Teuton wrote:A crucial question is whether energy is by definition physical energy, because if it is not, supernaturalists can draw a distinction between physical energy (PE) and (hyperphysical) mental energy (HME). As the concept of hyperphysical, mental mass is doubtless nonsensical, there is only a PE-mass equivalence but no HME-mass equivalence. (Anyway, a spiritual being with a mass would be a material being.)
Given the distinction between PE and HME, one can say that the natural world is spacetime+matter+physical energy; and the theists can then also say that when God, the divine spirit, created the natural world, he converted a certain amount of his mental energy into physical energy.
Of course, now two basic questions arise as to how such a "magical" HME-PE conversion can conceivably take place, and whether the concept of HME really makes sense in the first place.
That's another great case study. Say this HME exists. Then it must have some properties, one of which is an ability to be converted into physical energy. If we could learn those properties, then HME would come to be regarded as part of the natural world, because we would be able to describe its behaviour, perhaps using Teuton's elliptical HME field equation, which would rank up there with Einstein's gravitation field equation and the Schrodinger equation as objects of scientific awe and veneration.
The more I think about this, the more I am convinced that when people say 'supernatural' they just mean "that which we currently do not understand", despite the theologians' and religious apologists' strenuous objections that that is not what they mean at all.