Posted: Aug 09, 2017 12:02 pm
by SpeedOfSound
romansh wrote:
GrahamH wrote:
...
I think the bus exists and has a surface at least what passes for a surface.

I am trying to ask how accurate a representation is my red perception, of the bus's surface?
...

So that is what I am pushing back on. If you have normal color vision, and even in some respect if you do not, your perception of the surface of the bus is highly accurate. It's REALLY out there and it is REALLY red. Of course it is really a lot of other things to a lot of other creatures and things as well.

If I am a boulder rolling down a hill and I catch on a bigger boulder than I have 'perceived' the boulder accurately.

The thing that does not exist is those green and red strawberry percept-o-plasms in that video Graham posted. Those are the spooks. If you believe in those spooks then you will start thinking that what you perceive is not really there. Or that I perceive strawberries in a different manner than you do. If we can see red we all see red in exactly the same way. This is because the strawberry is really red. If we have a color problem then things are a little different. We can't discriminate the red in the same way as our peers. So we can't quite feel the red that is really there.

Do you see how subtle and confusing all this is? How things like noumena may become a fad?

The failure occurs somewhere around where we come up with the idea of naive realism. We imagine that there is a reality perceivable that we are not quite getting. That we can exceed the boundaries of our organism and imagine that we are wrong.

The habit of doing that imagining of error is derived from something we naturally do each and every day. We close our eyes and we imagine that some thief has stolen into the room and we are wrong about not believing he is there. So above we extrapolate that doubt to when our eyes are full on open and we imagine an error that is not really there just like the thief is not really there.

There is no error. Reality is just as we perceive it because we and our perception are fully a part of the reality.

I think if I were ever able to read that boring fuck Kant, it would turn out that this is what he was really trying to get at. He sounds paradoxical occasionally and I think this is because we are getting the wrong message with this idea of an error in our perception.