Posted: Aug 21, 2017 2:53 pm
by GrahamH
scott1328 wrote:
GrahamH wrote:
scott1328 wrote:
To me it is about prediction, oppurtunities, evaluation of oppurtunities, and consequences. To me, free will cannot exist unless cuase and effect are in full operation. Otherwise prediction of likely outcomes and consequences are impossible.

I don't see why determinism is required for that. Statistics is sufficient for some level of accurate prediction. If you want to know likely outcomes you only need to know the odds, not the exact causal mechanism and precise initial conditions. Indeed very accurate prediction is possible for systems where we cannot know the exact initial conditions and we can't observe an exact causal mechanism. And free will choices are only about likely outcomes, not perfect knowledge of what will actually happen. If humans could map from initial conditions to actual outcomes we surely would not have a concept of free will because we would know why vents happen and it would be plain that it isn't 'will' driving things.

Could you point me to where precisely I claimed that "determinism" is required. Have you perhaps conflated cause-and-effect with determinism?

I took "cause and effect are in full operation" to be determinism, yes. Otherwise I don't know what the qualifier "full" signifies. Can you clarify?