Posted: Feb 10, 2018 2:01 pm
by Destroyer
Cito di Pense wrote:
Fallible wrote:Unless you think I'm lying, these statements are objectively true.


That you have made the statements is objectively true. Whether or not I believe them is irrelevant; the statements are inconsequential. I'd be a dick for not believing your favorite color is teal, based on nothing more than your testimony. No need to swear on a bible.


What cito is saying is precisely the case.

There is really nothing difficult to understand about the subjective and objective divide. If One possesses independent substance/solidity which can be accessed repetitively and constantly by ALL observers, then One has objectivity. This means that irrespective of any individual/subjective views regarding that substance, the solidity will always be evident for verification by ALL. However, as a subject, one does not possess this independence, which means that one necessarily must defer to the Object. Consciousness happens to be such a subject, for the obvious reason that it is the physical universe which clearly possesses universal solidity that can be repetitively accessed by all observers. Unfortunately consciousness can only be accessed by individual brains, and no other brain is privy to the relationship. This means that ALL other observers but one cannot verify for themselves exactly what is being thought or felt in conjunction with any specific brain but their own. This lack of universal solidity/substance, which alone can verify objectivity/independence, is what confines one to being a subject. Therefore only the Object has factual support, and can be verified independently of all subjects.

Our emotions and opinions all seem very real to us. Nevertheless nothing that we are thinking or feeling can be verified independently; so, of necessity we must communicate our thoughts and feelings before they are known to any other. This, unfortunately means that our subjectivity has no substance that is openly and independently accessible to all observers; which unfortunately means that those thoughts are just illusory. Anyone who believes, or claims that the conscious individual does have independent/objective solidity and substance, must, of necessity demonstrate this independent solidity: And what that will entail is a demonstration of how exactly One, who is clearly subject to the Physical universe, is also independent of the Physical universe.