Posted: Dec 17, 2020 9:20 am
Hermit wrote:BWE wrote:The_Piper wrote:There are still sound waves and visible light without life. It doesn't matter what it's called or how it's perceived, it exists whether there's anything around to name it or not.
"If a tree falls in the middle of the forest, does it still make a sound?" Answer: yes.
"What came first, the chicken or the egg?" Answer: the egg.
I am not sure i agree with the point you are making here, and beginning with the premise that this whole subject is mental masturbation of the philosowanking variety and that I'm totally comfortable with that, sound , color, texture, etc. really are subjective in the most literal meaning of the word. In a world where we name things and then make models of the things we name and then call those models reality, the point goes pretty deep and is not at all well explored.
Maybe the point is that sound , color, texture, etc. exist regardless of whether someone perceives it (or what model someone constructs from those perceptions). You'll have a difficult time arguing otherwise.
BWE is prioritizing the cognitive. If you really want to litigate this, it will pay you to use language like "the stimuli we interpret as color and sound exist regardless blah blah blah". It's a tempest in a teapot for anyone who doesn't just love litigating it. I don't prescribe that language for you unless you want to carry on a conversation with someone who pickles his own experience and even reality itself to the extent that BWE is doing and pretty much has always done when push comes to shove. If there's something we're missing in descriptions of color and sound, it's the emotionality of pickled fee-fees. Pronounced 'fee-sees'.