Posted: Jul 29, 2011 4:37 am
jamest wrote:
If one does not have faith that reason is useful, then what is the justification for NOT using it?
I don’t think this follows without more explanation
jamest wrote:
Your threads all have a similar vein. I know this because there is a bog-standard retort to every one you've ever started.
Yes, I have a philosophical perspective and I like to discuss it. This is a philosophy forum so I think it’s appropriate.
jamest wrote:
In this instance, I would say that one cannot not have faith in reason, since one can only use reason to justify such a claim. Therefore, the claim is self-defeating.
It is not. I cannot prove logically that reason must be useful, and yet experience inspires me to trust reason. How is that self-defeating?
jamest wrote:
. ..Reason works like maths (maths being an extension of reason!)…
Yes, and why are you so confident that it works? I suspect that experience has inspired this confidence.
jamest wrote:
... The ultimate point, here, is that you cannot think - beyond the realms of imagination/fantasy/emotion - without utilising reason. Therefore, how are we to judge your thoughts, here? Shall we say that you are completely irrational for [trying to] use reason to denounce reason? Or, rather, shall we say that you are completely irrational because you think that one's imagination/emotion suffices to usurp reason?
No. We shall say that I am a great advocate of reason and that reason is grounded in something other than itself or it is not grounded at all.
jamest wrote:
... Either way, this thread is destined to give us the needle, again. I'm quite surprised that an intelligent guy like you hasn't grasped this basic-point, yet. The whole issue of justifying reason is beyond those who utilise reason. Why can't you understand this? Further, the issue of listening to people who don't think that reason is self-justifiable - given that their only other available option is their imagination - seems somewhat bizarre in a forum dedicated to reason, don't you think?
Thanks, I think you’re intelligent too. But intelligent people can disagree sometimes. I have a great respect for reason which is why I place such great faith in it. I wonder why you can’t see a problem with reason grounding itself. Nothing grounds itself.
Look, I would prefer that reason could ground itself but I have to be honest with myself. It seems impossible. So one day I just bit the bullet and admitted to myself that I have faith. I didn’t like having to admit that, but I got over it. At least now I have solid answer the skeptics, I have faith. And I think skeptics have faith in methodical doubt though it would make their blood boil to admit it. After all, isn’t skepticism deeply reassuring?
jamest wrote:
... You won't convince anyone here that anything other than reason/observation should be listened to, unless you can 'bend a spoon' (that's the popular mataphor for desire/imagination superceding observation/reason in these parts). So, either bend a spoon or [please] stop with all of these threads denouncing the relaibility of reason. As I see it, them's you're only options. Sorry to be blunt, but progress needs to be made here, as you are just churning-out the same messages in every thread which you instigate.
It’s Ok to be blunt. I forgive you since you obviously care about the truth. But I am the biggest advocate of reason in the universe. I’m just honest about the foundation of it. Ask any Time Lord.