Posted: Oct 01, 2012 12:19 pm
by zulumoose
I'm sorry you find it ludicrous, because you're just wrong. Better quality Irish instruction - i.e., Irish immersion universally produces proficient speakers.

Well DUH, what you are saying is it wasn't forced immersion, and that is why they are not fluent. Of course immersion produces proficient speakers, that is not the point at all.

Here is how it works:-

Step 1 - survey asks the public if X is central to the countries culture and history (note - not THEIR culture and history, the difference is important)

Eg - Ask person in England if Shakespeare is central to English culture and history (note not HIS PERSONAL culture and history)

Step 2 - survey declares that 72% responded positively, only 4.5% said no.

Eg - 72% of people in England said yes to Shakespeare question. 4.5% said no.

Step 3 - Saim declares that 70% have a very positive opinion of Shakespeare (which does not follow from the survey), and that only 4.5% would be unwilling to learn it at school (which also does not follow from the survey). If people seem to forget it immediately after school, it has nothing to do with their willingness, or lack of practical use for it, but it is their lack of immersion that is at fault (which is irrelevant, since immersion will make anyone fluent at anything).

The simple truth Saim, is that what the survey indicates would need to be followed up with some very much more specific questions in order to draw the conclusions you seem to think are the result. The Shakespeare example shows, if you think about it, that the real truth regarding peoples willingness to learn the language is quite likely to be the opposite of what you believe. English parents might easily choose to make Shakespeare a compulsory subject, but that does not imply that they think it is important to their own personal culture, nor does it imply that the students would be willing. They could easily do that, thinking they will impose some culture on their children, and at the same time have no intention of ever attending a Shakespearean production in their entire lives. I suspect the same is true regarding attitudes surrounding the Irish language. In both cases the kids will mostly drop it like a poisoned rat at the earliest opportunity.

And the result of forced Irish/Shakespeare?

Over 70% may think that Irish/Shakespeare will survive through the 21st century, but less than 2% will show any interest in it after school (yet most may still choose to have it imposed on their own children).

See my point?