Posted: Sep 16, 2016 4:25 pm
igorfrankensteen wrote:tuco wrote:Don't work from memory, Google does not make us dumber ok?
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Money
No one had to work? lol What this has to do with anything? In fact, in the so-called communism of Soviet era/bloc, everyone had to work, it was illegal not to work and who did not work could go to jail, unlike in capitalism where those with (but also without) money do not have to work.
Property, ownership of property, is indeed concept very hard to overcome in any utopia simply because land (on Earth) is finite unlike energy.
You said:Oh, piffle. Star Trek wasn't "communist." Not remotely.
Now you are trying to get away with it by arguing what "not remotely" means? Two thumbs up piffle indeed. RS
100% of the quotes in your link, support exactly what I said I remembered. If you have analyzed those quotes into saying anything else, you are supporting and illustrating my suggestion that people are going not on what was actually done and said on the show, but rather going on what their own personal REACTION to it was, at the time.
Note for example, that most people NOWADAYS don't use money, most of the time. We pay for things with credit cards, electronic signatures, even clicks of an ap on a cell phone.
And note also, that no matter what the quote is where they talk about eliminating want and so on, they never even ONCE specify that the manner and means they used to do this, was to switch to communal systems, or to ownership of the means of production by the workers. Not even close. You can find our current day politicians using nearly the same statements, no matter what party they belong to, or what economic system they otherwise champion.
The infamous "rising tide lifts all boats" thing, is a classic example. That sure as hell wasn't said in support of socialism. It was said with the idea that the way boats get lifted, is for everyone to get a friggen job, work like hell, and lift their own damn boat. The Republican Party in my country, talks non-stop about the idea that all poverty and disease and so on can be eliminated, if we all just dedicate ourselves to saying "shove it" to anyone who asks for help (except rich people), so that they are forced for their own good, to suck it up and work, regardless of their challenges.
I am reminded of more than a few science fiction subplots, where some new alien group showed up, young and energetic, all wearing shiny clothes, and having a lovely time, talking about how they had solved the problem of aging. In the end, we discover that their solution to aging, is for everyone over thirty to march into a meat processing plant.
picard