"Astrologers Jump On Cox"

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"Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#1  Postby Mr P » Apr 08, 2010 11:45 am

Particle physicist Brian Cox had the audacity to say on his "wonders of the solar system" show that astrology is a load of rubbish and so there obviously has to be a facebook group to defend the "practice".

More info here: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/04/07/astrologers-jump-on-cox/

How can someone not versed in imaginary pseudo-science possibly make any informed comment on it :grin:

P.S. I'm reading Why Does E=MC2 at the moment, highly recommended.
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Re: "Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#2  Postby I'm With Stupid » Apr 08, 2010 1:24 pm

Lol, thankfully that's one area of woo that everyone knows is bollocks.
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Re: "Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#3  Postby Mr P » Apr 08, 2010 1:44 pm

This is the FB page he references: http://www.facebook.com/notes/equinox-astrology/bbcs-wonders-of-the-solar-system-astrology/384769273320

I may be paying a visit when I get home from work :naughty2:
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Re: "Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#4  Postby Nautilidae » Apr 08, 2010 2:19 pm

I never expected Cox to be one that would anger the woo community. Besides, how can anyone truly become angry with Cox? His bright and cheery demeanor is transferred so easily...
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Re: "Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#5  Postby heyjude » Apr 08, 2010 3:02 pm

Mr P wrote:
P.S. I'm reading Why Does E=MC2 at the moment, highly recommended.


I'm reading it too! Awesome isn't it :) Such good writers!
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Re: "Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#6  Postby Mr P » Apr 08, 2010 3:13 pm

heyjude wrote:
Mr P wrote:
P.S. I'm reading Why Does E=MC2 at the moment, highly recommended.


I'm reading it too! Awesome isn't it :) Such good writers!

:thumbup: I never thought I would get so much as a vague grasp of relativity until I started this, now I've a head full of Minkowskian spacetime vectors :grin:
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Re: "Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#7  Postby Animavore » Apr 08, 2010 3:17 pm

I love the title of this thread :D

As for astrologers... they can cry their plump and puce faces to sleep like Glenn Beck for all I care.
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Re: "Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#8  Postby Paul » Apr 08, 2010 3:25 pm

From the facebook page

His careless assertion was unresearched, unsubstantiated and unscientific. Has he done any empirical studies? Has he explored his birth chart? Can he cite any scientific studies disproving astrology that are not fundamentally flawed? Of course not. I have certainly never seen him at an astrology conference or read anything written by him about astrology. Cox is simply not qualified to speak on astrology and his comments amount to no more than prejudice.


I don't know whether to :picard: or :rofl:

I think I'll :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

This bad science is an abuse of a position of trust in an educational scientific program funded by BBC licence payers. BBC guidelines state that astrology must be presented in a balanced way.


If the BBC guidelines actually state anything like that, then they need to be revised to something like

"astrology must be ridiculed in a balanced way"
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Re: "Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#9  Postby Paul » Apr 08, 2010 3:31 pm

Just saw someone had posted this in the comments section

Couldn't you have used your astrological charts to predict this and stop it being broadcast?


heyjude wrote:
Mr P wrote:
P.S. I'm reading Why Does E=MC2 at the moment, highly recommended.


I'm reading it too! Awesome isn't it :) Such good writers!


I got t for my birthday last month, will be starting it soon.
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Re: "Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#10  Postby hackenslash » Apr 08, 2010 3:35 pm

Well, I've just posted a few responses on their page, including a posting of the Courtier's Reply. :lol:

Oh, and I invited them here to attempt to defend their guff in the face of reality. That should be fun.
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Re: "Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#11  Postby Mr P » Apr 10, 2010 7:20 am

hackenslash wrote:Well, I've just posted a few responses on their page, including a posting of the Courtier's Reply. :lol:

Oh, and I invited them here to attempt to defend their guff in the face of reality. That should be fun.

Looks like WWIII has just broken out, although this comment made me chuckle
Not interested, Tony, I've got more productive uses for my time, especially with people who consider spirituality their main focus...besides, what reality are you talking about?

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Re: "Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#12  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 11, 2010 4:46 am

Well, I put my oar in when my friend came over to visit. He's a practicing Astrologer who has just received his diploma in it.

I've known this guy for about 20 years, and we rarely discuss this kind of thing, and if we do, I don't tend to confront him over it.

While he was staying here, I showed him some Tim Minchin vids. When we got to the one about Storm, my friend became a little agitated, and finally asked me to stop the audio. So I asked him what was up, and he said that it was offensive. I asked him why it was offensive and he said because he's attacking my beliefs. First, we had a quick chat about the right to not be offended, then we had a chat about how beliefs are constructed.... then he finally turned to me and said: Let me put it this way - I have been actively practicing this for a number of year, you know how important this is in my life, so what do you think?

Heh... how to give your opinion on the utter pap without upsetting a close friend?

So I carefully laid out the problems as far as I could see them. The complete lack of mechanism offered by Astrologers for the claimed consequences of their belief system, the lack of self-check in the system (He is always going on about fake Astrologers), the lack of verification of claims made by Astrologers.

Getting into stride, I then went on a rant about how people throughout the ages have used these devices to con people out of money. How cold-reading may not even be conscious, but is certainly being employed. How people try to make meaning out of their lives, then cling desperately to that meaning without ever subjecting it to scrutiny.

It was a lose-lose situation though. Either I was going to just offend him more and upset our relationship, or he was going to accept what I said and have his 'worldview' undermined. It seemed like the latter, although this discussion branched off onto other topics, he seemed to have lost the combative dialogue he had tended to use in the past when claims against Astrology had been made in his presence. He seemed to accept that Astrology fit into pseudo-science as it had no testable mechanisms and in fact didn't even claim to know the mechanism, could not be falsified to the satisfaction of the practicioners, and agreed that the results of Astrological readings could be cold-reading.

As I said though, it was lose-lose, because he looked a bit stunned after the conversation, and I didn't feel good have divested him of some of the confidence in his beliefs. However, I didn't feel bad about my opinion as he did explicitly ask me what I thought, and I had never told him my take on it in the past - I mentioned this to him straight away to deflect the angry initial challenge. "Mate, how long have we known each other, and how long have I heard you making claims about Astrology? Have I ever criticised your beliefs? Then you should have the patience to listen to what I actually think and stow your offense away, because I could just as easily have been offended by you rattling off nonsense in my ear for the last 10 years".

One amusing line of discussion was that, the fundamental reason I challenged Astrology was the presumption that some bodies in space can affect, or signal affects on the birth time and place of a person. He told me I was typically wrong in my assessment of the mechanisms, and that Astrology doesn't claim that.... yet when asked to give the mechanisms, there was no response!

This is, I think, the angle to approach Astrology: how does it work? If we permit the assumption that there is some kind of power at play here, but Astrologers don't actually know how their system works, then they need to accept the fact that they could be wrong and making correlations that are not what is actually occurring. This is a great counter to "you're just close-minded", because they dig their own hole! ;)
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Re: "Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#13  Postby crank » Apr 11, 2010 12:06 pm

I would just like to put in a plug for jumping on Cox, for it is of the greatest of pleasures!
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Re: "Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#14  Postby hackenslash » Apr 11, 2010 12:10 pm

^^ Butt plug? :lol:
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Re: "Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#15  Postby Varangian » Apr 11, 2010 12:22 pm

hackenslash wrote:^^ Butt plug? :lol:


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGab1SZDMmw[/youtube]

At 1.12...
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Re: "Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#16  Postby hackenslash » Apr 11, 2010 12:32 pm

Yep. I saw that when it was on. That was what I was thinking of.
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Re: "Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#17  Postby Varangian » Apr 11, 2010 10:58 pm

Guessed as much...
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Re: "Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#18  Postby Jef » Apr 11, 2010 11:24 pm

The final word on astrology, as given by Maddox in 2004:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net ... =astrology
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Re: "Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#19  Postby crank » Apr 12, 2010 9:07 pm

hackenslash wrote:Yep. I saw that when it was on. That was what I was thinking of.

They are merely trying to lay to rest worries about black holes don't you see?
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Re: "Astrologers Jump On Cox"

#20  Postby amyonyango » Apr 12, 2010 9:14 pm

crank wrote:I would just like to put in a plug for jumping on Cox, for it is of the greatest of pleasures!

:naughty2: :thumbup:
Assumption is the mother of all fuckups.
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