Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

Does consciousness survive death?

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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#41  Postby cursuswalker » Nov 14, 2010 7:23 pm

chairman bill wrote:Kylie either wants to marry me & have my babies, or she doesn't. Therefore there is a 50:50 chance she does. That she's never met me, and probably doesn't have a thing for bald, ugly old gits, suggests that figure might be a little on the optomistic side


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Re: DEATH-A CORRECT SCIENTIFIC APPROACH FOR SURVIVING IT

#42  Postby darwin2 » Nov 14, 2010 7:32 pm

trubble76 wrote:
darwin2 wrote:
trubble76 wrote:

No more silly and immature than the assertions of theists about the afterlife. Unscientific it may be, perhaps at this stage it's worth noting that I am not a scientist. This is not a scientific website, it is a rational scepticism site.
You seem to think atheist = scientist, while this is true in many cases, it is certainly not generally true.


Believing in an after-life is only silly and immature if there is no afterlife. Believing there is no afterlife is only silly and immature if there is an aftrerlife.


This is an attempt to equate believing in something for rational and empiracle reasons and believing in something because it's what you were told. There is just as much reason to believe in an afterlife as there is to believe in Russell's Teapot, or Sagan's dragon. ie none.
If that still doesn't convince you, then perhaps you could lend me £1000, I would repay it ten-fold in the hereafter.


What am I trying to convince you of? The theme in this thread is does consciousness continues after death or does it end after death. I don’t know the answer. At this point in time there is no evidence to support either possibility. All I suggest is that if one finds oneself conscious after the death of his physical body, it may be a good idea to use the scientific method to explore this new reality. I never stated that consciousness continues after death.
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#43  Postby darwin2 » Nov 14, 2010 9:02 pm

my_wan wrote:
Weaver wrote:Your logic is lacking. It is not a 50:50 proposition.

The old: If I'm ignorant of the answer it must be a 50:50 chance... :lol: :lol: :lol:

darwin2 ,
Since I don't know if you are an alien or not, does that mean there is a 50:50 chance you are? :what:


That's a question I ask myself sometimes.
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#44  Postby darwin2 » Nov 14, 2010 9:07 pm

chairman bill wrote:Kylie either wants to marry me & have my babies, or she doesn't. Therefore there is a 50:50 chance she does. That she's never met me, and probably doesn't have a thing for bald, ugly old gits, suggests that figure might be a little on the optomistic side


You seem like a very nice person. I hope Kylie marries you. Don't worry about the fact she's never met you. Be positive and keep looking for her. She may be your next door neighbor.
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#45  Postby darwin2 » Nov 14, 2010 9:11 pm

cursuswalker wrote:I believe the OP can be filed under 'Wishful thinking- misc.'


I think it can be filed under a courageous rational approach in dealing with the reality of death.
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#46  Postby orpheus » Nov 14, 2010 10:27 pm

:popcorn:

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Re: DEATH-A CORRECT SCIENTIFIC APPROACH FOR SURVIVING IT

#47  Postby Weaver » Nov 15, 2010 12:33 pm

darwin2 wrote:
Weaver wrote:
darwin2 wrote:

Your statement that when the brains stop consciousness stops too is very unfounded and unscientific. It is only opinion. You have no evidence to prove this. This is a rational website, so please be more rational in your response.

Yeah, right, just as there is no evidence to prove that there isn't a china teapot circling the Sun in Earth orbit. Like we haven't heard that before.

Here's a hint: Don't try to tell us how we should act on our rational website when you are making blind, irrational assertions and expecting people to go along with them.


Name one blind irrational statement I have made and describe why it is irrational!

Your assessment that the likelihood of consciousness surviving after brain death is blind (as it's based on absolutely no evidence at all) and irrational (because the assessment of 50:50 odds is simply not supportable without any evidence or methodology for consciousness outside the brain).
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#48  Postby chairman bill » Nov 15, 2010 12:38 pm

darwin2 wrote:You seem like a very nice person. I hope Kylie marries you. Don't worry about the fact she's never met you. Be positive and keep looking for her. She may be your next door neighbor.


I'm not. I'm a git. And Kylie is simply gorgeous. Google 'Kylie Minogue', you'll see. And she doesn't live next door. :(
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Re: DEATH-A CORRECT SCIENTIFIC APPROACH FOR SURVIVING IT

#49  Postby trubble76 » Nov 15, 2010 1:29 pm

darwin2 wrote:
trubble76 wrote:
darwin2 wrote:

Believing in an after-life is only silly and immature if there is no afterlife. Believing there is no afterlife is only silly and immature if there is an aftrerlife.


This is an attempt to equate believing in something for rational and empiracle reasons and believing in something because it's what you were told. There is just as much reason to believe in an afterlife as there is to believe in Russell's Teapot, or Sagan's dragon. ie none.
If that still doesn't convince you, then perhaps you could lend me £1000, I would repay it ten-fold in the hereafter.


What am I trying to convince you of? The theme in this thread is does consciousness continues after death or does it end after death. I don’t know the answer. At this point in time there is no evidence to support either possibility. All I suggest is that if one finds oneself conscious after the death of his physical body, it may be a good idea to use the scientific method to explore this new reality. I never stated that consciousness continues after death.


Please have another read, you have misunderstood. I did not suggest you were trying to convince me of anything, you might be but I made no such claim.
I know what the theme of the thread is, that's why I was replying to you. You can check, it's all quoted above.You are essentially playing the Pascal's Wager card, and mistakenly assigning the probabilty as 50%.
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#50  Postby rJD » Nov 15, 2010 2:33 pm

darwin2 wrote:
my_wan wrote:
Weaver wrote:Your logic is lacking. It is not a 50:50 proposition.

The old: If I'm ignorant of the answer it must be a 50:50 chance... :lol: :lol: :lol:

darwin2 ,
Since I don't know if you are an alien or not, does that mean there is a 50:50 chance you are? :what:


That's a question I ask myself sometimes.

Uh-huh... :whistle:
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#51  Postby my_wan » Nov 15, 2010 2:40 pm

rJD wrote:
darwin2 wrote:
my_wan wrote:
The old: If I'm ignorant of the answer it must be a 50:50 chance... :lol: :lol: :lol:

darwin2 ,
Since I don't know if you are an alien or not, does that mean there is a 50:50 chance you are? :what:


That's a question I ask myself sometimes.

Uh-huh... :whistle:

I thought it was good enough to speak for itself to :naughty2:
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#52  Postby Goldenmane » Nov 15, 2010 2:54 pm

What the fuck is "consciousness"?

Define it, then we'll talk.
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#53  Postby cursuswalker » Nov 15, 2010 3:20 pm

darwin2 wrote:
cursuswalker wrote:I believe the OP can be filed under 'Wishful thinking- misc.'


I think it can be filed under a courageous rational approach in dealing with the reality of death.


Really?

So how much verifiable evidence do you have for consciousness surviving death? And what the hell has courage got to do with it?
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Re: DEATH-A CORRECT SCIENTIFIC APPROACH FOR SURVIVING IT

#54  Postby darwin2 » Nov 15, 2010 3:24 pm

Weaver wrote:
darwin2 wrote:
Weaver wrote:
Yeah, right, just as there is no evidence to prove that there isn't a china teapot circling the Sun in Earth orbit. Like we haven't heard that before.

Here's a hint: Don't try to tell us how we should act on our rational website when you are making blind, irrational assertions and expecting people to go along with them.


Name one blind irrational statement I have made and describe why it is irrational!

Your assessment that the likelihood of consciousness surviving after brain death is blind (as it's based on absolutely no evidence at all) and irrational (because the assessment of 50:50 odds is simply not supportable without any evidence or methodology for consciousness outside the brain).


You are making a red herring out of 50:50 odds and over-looking the basic reality of this thread. We humans are going to die at some point in this very short existence. Either death ends consciousness or it survives it. If consciousness survives I suggest for one who finds himself in an after death reality to use the scientific method to explore whatever death reality one may find himself in.
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Re: DEATH-A CORRECT SCIENTIFIC APPROACH FOR SURVIVING IT

#55  Postby darwin2 » Nov 15, 2010 3:40 pm

trubble76 wrote:
darwin2 wrote:
trubble76 wrote:

This is an attempt to equate believing in something for rational and empiracle reasons and believing in something because it's what you were told. There is just as much reason to believe in an afterlife as there is to believe in Russell's Teapot, or Sagan's dragon. ie none.
If that still doesn't convince you, then perhaps you could lend me £1000, I would repay it ten-fold in the hereafter.


What am I trying to convince you of? The theme in this thread is does consciousness continues after death or does it end after death. I don’t know the answer. At this point in time there is no evidence to support either possibility. All I suggest is that if one finds oneself conscious after the death of his physical body, it may be a good idea to use the scientific method to explore this new reality. I never stated that consciousness continues after death.


Please have another read, you have misunderstood. I did not suggest you were trying to convince me of anything, you might be but I made no such claim.
I know what the theme of the thread is, that's why I was replying to you. You can check, it's all quoted above.You are essentially playing the Pascal's Wager card, and mistakenly assigning the probabilty as 50%.


I apologize for any mis-reading of your post. However it not important to argue about the 50% probability. It is not an essential component to the theme of this thread. This thread addresses the undeniable fact that we humans will die at some point in our short existence on this planet. At this point in time we have absolutely no evidence that consciousness ceases at death or if it continues after death. Either it does or it doesn't. Since it is possible that it may continue after death, I offer the suggestion to one who may find himself conscious in an after death reality to use the scientific method to explore this reality. There is nothing complicated here. It is simply a suggestion for a possible realtiy that could take place when we die and how to deal with this possibility if it becomes a reality.
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Re: DEATH-A CORRECT SCIENTIFIC APPROACH FOR SURVIVING IT

#56  Postby rJD » Nov 15, 2010 3:45 pm

darwin2 wrote:At this point in time we have absolutely no evidence that consciousness ceases at death or if it continues after death.

This is not true. We have evidence only of consciousness existing in living beings and it is a reasonable inference from this that consciousness requires a living material body to exist.

Your stated desire to investigate post-mortem consciousness scientifically would seem doomed by the complete lack of any evidence in favour of your hypothesis and an equal failure to provide any means of testing it.
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#57  Postby Mr P » Nov 15, 2010 3:45 pm

It may be possible for consciousness to survive the death of the body via some technological means in the distant future, but how do you propose this without a physical substrate... if that's what you're getting at?
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Re: DEATH-A CORRECT SCIENTIFIC APPROACH FOR SURVIVING IT

#58  Postby Goldenmane » Nov 15, 2010 3:47 pm

darwin2 wrote:You are making a red herring out of 50:50 odds and over-looking the basic reality of this thread. We humans are going to die at some point in this very short existence. Either death ends consciousness or it survives it. If consciousness survives I suggest for one who finds himself in an after death reality to use the scientific method to explore whatever death reality one may find himself in.


I suggest that your position as presented is patent bollocks.

For a start, it's poorly presented: learn to parse your sentences, mate. Secondly, you have to define "consciousness": you're going to run in to a lot of problems doing so, the most obvious one being demonstrating a single well-recorded instance of a "conscious mind" existing absent a physical substrate - brain.

Were you conscious before, say, the age of 18 months? Do you remember actual events back then or before? How about in your past lives? Can you actually provide anything other than wild speculation and patent bullshit to support your claims?

Good luck, I look forward to your challenges.
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#59  Postby darwin2 » Nov 15, 2010 3:54 pm

Goldenmane wrote:What the fuck is "consciousness"?

Define it, then we'll talk.


Are you aware that you asked me this question "What the fuck is "consciousness"? ]Are you aware that you made the statement "Define it, then we'll talk?"

If you answer yes to both questions, you have my definition of consciousness..
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#60  Postby darwin2 » Nov 15, 2010 4:09 pm

cursuswalker wrote:
darwin2 wrote:
cursuswalker wrote:I believe the OP can be filed under 'Wishful thinking- misc.'


I think it can be filed under a courageous rational approach in dealing with the reality of death.


Really?

So how much verifiable evidence do you have for consciousness surviving death? And what the hell has courage got to do with it?


I have absolutely no evidence that consciousness continues after death. I have absolutely no evidence that consciousness ceases death. I state very cleary it is an open issue and that it is possible for consciousness to continue after death. One thing that is undeniable is that all humans will die. However if one finds oneself conscious after death, I offer a suggestion that I think will help a person who may find himself in an afterdeath reality. My suggestion is simple and that is to use the scientific method to explore this afterdeath reality.

Science has arrogantly brainwashed many into to falsely believing it is not possible for consciousness to continue after death. It takes courage to face up to this delusion and realize it is possible for consciousness to continue after death.
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