Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

Does consciousness survive death?

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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#601  Postby Rhubis » Sep 14, 2012 1:09 pm

Fallible wrote:Well done, Rhubis. A fairy has just died. :nono:


Unless that death has been referenced in a peer reviewed article then I don't believe it!
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#602  Postby Fallible » Sep 14, 2012 1:31 pm

There goes another one!

Well I do believe in fairies. I do, I do!
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#603  Postby christine » Sep 14, 2012 2:17 pm

Hello, all of you.

I have only just logged on, I do not spend all day on the bloody computer.

Before I continue, I will make quick responses to just 3 of your comments. I explained yesterday that I'd tried to submit a post, but when I pressed "submit", my post was not printed - got deleted, somehow. In that post I'd apologised for the fact that I can't seem to master the "quote function"; I have tried (by following the method for doing it, given to me by one of you, I'm sorry, but I can't recall who it was), but it doesn't work for me. So I will have to continue posting the way I do...can't do anything else.

The three comments I wish to make are:

To Made of Stars: who said "Christine, I think someone's been pulling your legs with that reading list" (and highlighted the book "the case against death", by Richard Lazarus.
Firstly, that list of books was NOT given to me by someone else, it was my put-together list, for you lot, being 30-something books of the 600+ (six hundred plus...) that I've personally read on this (in fact) factual subject in the last 18+ years.
And secondly, if you were trying to be funny, with the author Richard Lazarus' surname, then you should be ashamed of yourself, for the man who wrote that excellent book DOES have the surname Lazarus.
But this is all you lot can do, isn't it...ridicule, make incorrectly patronising remarks, etc etc... I've looked at your profiles, when I've read your comments to me, and very many of them are so infantile and stupid... you will know full well what I mean...with made-up places, and, as I say, infantile words used.

And now for the comment which "Fallible" made to me, today: saying "has it been half an hour yet?".
I said those words YESTERDAY, at about 9.30pm (UK time), and went back onto the computer about an hour later... so why don't you check on the day on which i actually said those words, huh, before you wrongly tried to make out I'd not gone back on the computer. For Heaven's sake, I do have other things to do in my life, I am not joined at the hip to the computer, like you lot seem to be.

And the third response: to Orpheus - who said to me "you should be able to convince us in less than a page...".

I've heard it all, now. No matter what you lot merely "think", we do truly survive "death" (I will give you some of the factual data further on in this post, and subsequent posts. But I have to reply to your inane remark... there is only one aspect of the (multi-faceted aspects) data that can be and has been proven SCIENTIFICALLY, and that is the category called "materialisations" - I will explain in more detail in a later post, but this is where people who are what you lot assume to be "stone-cold dead" are able to manifest, physically, through a person who is a materialisation medium (I wish i could underline, on these posts); people who are wrongly thought to be "dead" have manifested physically,by the use of a very real substance called ectoplasm, extruded by such mediums, and doctors and scientists present at such materialisations have been able to confirm that the materialisation IS the same person who has done what is wrongly called to "die".
My point is that all the other very real and genuine proofs that we do survive the illusory event termed "death" ARE NOT PROVABLE BY YOUR RIDICULOUS "SCIENTIFIC METHOD"; for, let me explain to you a basic fact: SPIRITUAL truths are NOT able to be proved by PHYSICAL (ie, your ridiculous "scientific method") means. Precisely because physical truths and spiritual truths are two different things entirely.
And there will eventually come a day for each and every one of you when you will learn that we do live in a spiritual multiverse, as opposed to a mere material universe, as is the very wrong assumption of all scientific materialists.
The day on which you will all learn that, will be the eventual day on which you all do what is so wrongly termed to "die"./

Now, in a second I will begin describing to you, some of the aspects of the data that proves we survive the illusory event termed "death". But before I do, I will say that I've already (yesterday) begun to do that, in brief, when I included the fact that many blind and deaf people also have NDE's.. and in those NDE#'s, they see and hear things that were going on, in an operating theatre, whilst they, the NDE'r, were in a deep coma, or had just been pronounced "dead", with no brain-stem activity. They were then resuscitated, and described what they had seen and/or heard, whilst in that condition. And the things which they had SEEN (take note, this happens with blind people who've had NDEs) and the things which they heard, are subsequently verified. Ie, they are VERIDICAL NDE's. People who are, in physical life, blind (and there is at least one case where a woman who has been blind from birth, had an NDE, and, whilst she was in that deeply unconscious state, SAW many things... in the operating theatre, and elsewhere, proving that we each have another method of seeing: ie, with the spiritual vision we have, from the perspective of our eternal spirit (ie, sub-atomic energy) body.
And these cases - NDE's experienced by people who are, in physical life, blind and/or deaf - have been referred to as the "smoking gun" for the reality of everyone's survival of the very illusory event termed "death".
I told you this, in a post yesterday, but (how "conveniently"..) not one of you has remarked on it.
I gave you a reference to one of the books about it: "Mindsight", by Kenneth Ring and Sharon Cooper. Ring is an Emeritus Professor of Psychology.

I am going to open up a new post, for the beginning of my explanations to you all of the multi-faceted data.
You will NOT get what you want: "a citation from a peer-reviewed journal", for that is for merely materialistic stuff, NOT for the deepest truths one can ever have, the vital spiritual truths of life.

I wonder, are you going to ridicule and vilely abuse Dr Piero Calvi-Parisetti as severely as you are behaving towards me???
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#604  Postby Steve » Sep 14, 2012 2:33 pm

christine wrote:
I wonder, are you going to ridicule and vilely abuse Dr Piero Calvi-Parisetti as severely as you are behaving towards me???

Only if his attempts to bullshit us merit it. Same as you. We do this because we actually respect you, as opposed to kiss your arse. You are capable of so much more! I love it when I get called on my bullshit - that is when I learn something. You wouldn't want to go through life believing a bunch of bullshit would you? If you do then I suggest you leave the forum - that's not what we do here. We are here to learn. If you have something we could learn we would love to get at it!
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#605  Postby twistor59 » Sep 14, 2012 2:36 pm

Apologies for thinking you were a Poe/troll. You have to understand, it is not infrequent that people post stuff just to have a laugh at our expense. I now believe you are truly sincere in your views:

http://www.snu.org.uk/community/districts/w_m/west_midlands.html
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#606  Postby christine » Sep 14, 2012 2:59 pm

I have just had another post I was in the middle of, wiped out, as I was typing it... which makes me very angry.

I will now have to retype what I'd already done. So here goes.
Briefly: for a long time, orthodox science has merely made the ASSUMPTION that the mind/consciousness is "nothing other than a by-product of brain activity", and (unfortunately for them) for many outdated materialist scientists, that is still the (incorrect) prevailing assumption.
However, in more recent years, PROPER scientists (ie, those who are open-minded, and who wish to discover the real truth, as opposed to merely clinging on to an incorrect materialist view of reality) have studied this (it is called the "hard problem" - ie, where does consciousness TRULY come from?"), and these true scientists (including more and more neuroscientists and neurosurgeons) have discovered that there is data available which shows not only that the non-physical mind/consciousness CANNOT be "merely a by-product of brain activity", but also that the experiential data shows that the "mere" physical brain and the non-physical mind/consciousness are, truly, completely separate from each other.
Ie, the extant data (do the research: for that is what truly intelligent people do, as opposed to listening to the provable rubbish of idiots like Dawkins) illlustrates (to open-minded, true scientists, as opposed to those who who are obstinate and thus wish to stay in the intellectual dark ages and maintain the (false) materialist mindset) shows that the non-physical mind/consciousness operates/manifests THROUGH the "mere" physical brain, that it is NOT a "mere by-product of the mere physical brain".

One of the earliest modern-day neurosurgeons who discovered/realised that the non-physical mind is NOT a mere by-product of brain activity, but that it is completely separate from the brain, was Wilder Penfield (1891-1976). He wrote a book, "The mystery of the mind: a critical study of consciousness and the human brain".
He, and other neurosurgeons and neuroscientists since then, have realised/are realising that the "mere" physical brain is NOT the creator of the mind, but that it, the mere physical brain, is a "reducing valve",a filter, THROUGH WHICH the non-physical mind/consciousness operates/manifests.
It is because of this - that the non-physical mind and the mere physical brain are two separate things entirely - that people have what have been termed "Near-Death Experiences" (NDE's).
And, as I said in post yesterday, and reiterated it in the post before this one, today,that a number of blind people and deaf people have also had NDE's.... and the content of their NDE's are exactly the same as the NDE's experienced by people who are not blind and/or deaf. Ie, blind people who have had an NDE (including some people who have been blind from birth) find themselves outside their physical body, and SEE and HEAR actions and words that are carried out/spoken, by doctors and nurses in the operating theatre, and the blind people having NDE's also SEE (whilst out of body) people in the nearby waiting room, and can describe what those people were wearing, precisely. And, when the blind people who are having an NDE are, eventually, resuscitated by the attending doctor(s), they tell them what they saw and/or heard, whilst they were in a deep coma, or having been pronounced "dead" by the attending doctor.. and the things they said they SAW were investigated, and proved to be 100% correct. Ie, blind people have VERIDICAL NDE's.
Ie, they prove, in this way, that they were able to SEE, whilst outside their physical body - when, from the perspective of their physical body, they had been blind from birth...

This data is realised, by scientists, doctors, psychiatrists, etc, who are INFORMED on the available data, to be of vital significance, as regards the actual nature of reality, of existence... and it is for this reason that NDE's of blind people are being said to be the "smoking gun" for the reality of everyone's survival of physical body "death"...

Tomorrow, I will say a little bit more on VERIDICAL NDE's, and then I will proceed to explain the actual nature of the thing which makes us what is termed "alive" on Earth. And will explain why that is why we DO all survive (in sub-atomic energy form: the eternal soul we each are) the vey illusory event termed "death".
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#607  Postby The_Metatron » Sep 14, 2012 3:07 pm

twistor59 wrote:Apologies for thinking you were a Poe/troll. You have to understand, it is not infrequent that people post stuff just to have a laugh at our expense. I now believe you are truly sincere in your views:

http://www.snu.org.uk/community/districts/w_m/west_midlands.html

Is this you, Christine?
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#608  Postby christine » Sep 14, 2012 3:08 pm

To Twister59:

Well, I really have seen it all, now!!!

THAT Christine Thompson on the SNU website IS NOT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not live in Stafford, I live in Lincolnshire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

By your WRONG ASSUMPTION that that was me, on the SNU website, you have proved that you materialists take everything at face-value... for you MERELY ASSUMED that that was me.. you did not consider that there might be ANOTHER Christine Thompson in the country!!!!

A former colleague of mine, when I worked in London 1980-2001, told me that a former girlfriend of his had been called Christine Thompson. NOT ME, another Christine Thompson.

How can you be so stupid as to see a "Christine Thompson" on a website and make an ASSUMPTION that it was me?????!!!!!?????

Pathetic...
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#609  Postby Steve » Sep 14, 2012 3:12 pm

christine wrote:To Twister59:

Well, I really have seen it all, now!!!

THAT Christine Thompson on the SNU website IS NOT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not live in Stafford, I live in Lincolnshire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

By your WRONG ASSUMPTION that that was me, on the SNU website, you have proved that you materialists take everything at face-value... for you MERELY ASSUMED that that was me.. you did not consider that there might be ANOTHER Christine Thompson in the country!!!!

A former colleague of mine, when I worked in London 1980-2001, told me that a former girlfriend of his had been called Christine Thompson. NOT ME, another Christine Thompson.

How can you be so stupid as to see a "Christine Thompson" on a website and make an ASSUMPTION that it was me?????!!!!!?????

Pathetic...



Try applying this standard to your life after death assertions and we will see if we can get at the truth of things.
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#610  Postby Spearthrower » Sep 14, 2012 3:14 pm

My point is that all the other very real and genuine proofs that we do survive the illusory event termed "death" ARE NOT PROVABLE BY YOUR RIDICULOUS "SCIENTIFIC METHOD"; for, let me explain to you a basic fact: SPIRITUAL truths are NOT able to be proved by PHYSICAL (ie, your ridiculous "scientific method") means. Precisely because physical truths and spiritual truths are two different things entirely.


Thanks for admitting that you're just talking total hogwash.

Next.
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#611  Postby twistor59 » Sep 14, 2012 3:17 pm

:hide:

D'oh!

You must admit though: it does fit! I bet you and Christine would get along famously.


Edit: I bet your're THE ONE ON THIS PAGE though aren't you? Intelligent, erudite, ....capitalization-overzealous..... yeah I MUST have it right this time.
Last edited by twistor59 on Sep 14, 2012 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#612  Postby Macroinvertebrate » Sep 14, 2012 3:26 pm

christine wrote: But I have to reply to your inane remark... there is only one aspect of the (multi-faceted aspects) data that can be and has been proven SCIENTIFICALLY, and that is the category called "materialisations"


Please detail the the methodology that qualifies this statement; "...has been proven scientifically". Thanks!

christine wrote: - I will explain in more detail in a later post, but this is where people who are what you lot assume to be "stone-cold dead" are able to manifest, physically, through a person who is a materialisation medium (I wish i could underline, on these posts); people who are wrongly thought to be "dead" have manifested physically,by the use of a very real substance called ectoplasm, extruded by such mediums, and doctors and scientists present at such materialisations have been able to confirm that the materialisation IS the same person who has done what is wrongly called to "die".


Love that movie!

Image

christine wrote: My point is that all the other very real and genuine proofs that we do survive the illusory event termed "death" ARE NOT PROVABLE BY YOUR RIDICULOUS "SCIENTIFIC METHOD"; for, let me explain to you a basic fact: SPIRITUAL truths are NOT able to be proved by PHYSICAL (ie, your ridiculous "scientific method") means.


You're the one who claims that you have a scientific approach for surviving death. Given that the scientific method has to be part of ANY scientific approach, it's no wonder you are having such a difficult time convincing anyone of your absurd claims. Without resorting to Wikipedia or a Google search, please detail your understanding of the scientific method, including each step of the process, in order. Thanks! If you don't know what the scientific method entails, you are hardly qualified to be dismissing it out of hand as "ridiculous". ;)

christine wrote: And there will eventually come a day for each and every one of you when you will learn that we do live in a spiritual multiverse, as opposed to a mere material universe, as is the very wrong assumption of all scientific materialists. The day on which you will all learn that, will be the eventual day on which you all do what is so wrongly termed to "die".


More unsubstantiated, absurd, unscientific assertions. Yawn.....

christine wrote: Now, in a second I will begin describing to you, some of the aspects of the data that proves we survive the illusory event termed "death". But before I do, I will say that I've already (yesterday) begun to do that, in brief, when I included the fact that many blind and deaf people also have NDE's.. and in those NDE#'s, they see and hear things that were going on, in an operating theatre, whilst they, the NDE'r, were in a deep coma, or had just been pronounced "dead", with no brain-stem activity. They were then resuscitated, and described what they had seen and/or heard, whilst in that condition. And the things which they had SEEN (take note, this happens with blind people who've had NDEs) and the things which they heard, are subsequently verified. Ie, they are VERIDICAL NDE's. People who are, in physical life, blind (and there is at least one case where a woman who has been blind from birth, had an NDE, and, whilst she was in that deeply unconscious state, SAW many things... in the operating theatre, and elsewhere, proving that we each have another method of seeing: ie, with the spiritual vision we have, from the perspective of our eternal spirit (ie, sub-atomic energy) body.
And these cases - NDE's experienced by people who are, in physical life, blind and/or deaf - have been referred to as the "smoking gun" for the reality of everyone's survival of the very illusory event termed "death".
I told you this, in a post yesterday, but (how "conveniently"..) not one of you has remarked on it.
I gave you a reference to one of the books about it: "Mindsight", by Kenneth Ring and Sharon Cooper. Ring is an Emeritus Professor of Psychology.


:rofl: :insane:

christine wrote: I am going to open up a new post, for the beginning of my explanations to you all of the multi-faceted data. You will NOT get what you want: "a citation from a peer-reviewed journal", for that is for merely materialistic stuff, NOT for the deepest truths one can ever have, the vital spiritual truths of life.


Please detail a scientific approach that isn't materialistic. Thanks!

christine wrote:I wonder, are you going to ridicule and vilely abuse Dr Piero Calvi-Parisetti as severely as you are behaving towards me???


:boohoo: You could mitigate at least a bit of ridicule if you learned how to use the goddamn quote function. It's really quite simple. Do you need a tutorial?
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#613  Postby campermon » Sep 14, 2012 3:28 pm

twistor59 wrote::hide:

D'oh!

You must admit though: it does fit! I bet you and Christine would get along famously.


Edit: I bet your're THE ONE ON THIS PAGE though aren't you? Intelligent, erudite, ....capitalization-overzealous..... yeah I MUST have it right this time.


Bookmarking for later chewing....

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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#614  Postby Macroinvertebrate » Sep 14, 2012 3:29 pm

christine wrote:To Twister59:

Well, I really have seen it all, now!!!

THAT Christine Thompson on the SNU website IS NOT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not live in Stafford, I live in Lincolnshire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

By your WRONG ASSUMPTION that that was me, on the SNU website, you have proved that you materialists take everything at face-value... for you MERELY ASSUMED that that was me.. you did not consider that there might be ANOTHER Christine Thompson in the country!!!!

A former colleague of mine, when I worked in London 1980-2001, told me that a former girlfriend of his had been called Christine Thompson. NOT ME, another Christine Thompson.

How can you be so stupid as to see a "Christine Thompson" on a website and make an ASSUMPTION that it was me?????!!!!!?????

Pathetic...


:lol: U mad, bro?
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#615  Postby The_Metatron » Sep 14, 2012 3:33 pm

christine wrote:To Twister59:

Well, I really have seen it all, now!!!

THAT Christine Thompson on the SNU website IS NOT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not live in Stafford, I live in Lincolnshire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

By your WRONG ASSUMPTION that that was me, on the SNU website, you have proved that you materialists take everything at face-value... for you MERELY ASSUMED that that was me.. you did not consider that there might be ANOTHER Christine Thompson in the country!!!!

A former colleague of mine, when I worked in London 1980-2001, told me that a former girlfriend of his had been called Christine Thompson. NOT ME, another Christine Thompson.

How can you be so stupid as to see a "Christine Thompson" on a website and make an ASSUMPTION that it was me?????!!!!!?????

Pathetic...

How about you ease off a little fucking bit there, Christine?

No one assumed it was you. Which is why I asked. Had I assumed it was you, I wouldn't have bothered to find out, would I?

Who, exactly, were you calling stupid and pathetic in the above quoted post?

Edit to add: It also occurs to me that this little tantrum of yours could also be completely full of shit. Ninety fucking exclamation points or all capitol letters doesn't ensure veracity.
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#616  Postby orpheus » Sep 14, 2012 3:39 pm

christine wrote:

And the third response: to Orpheus - who said to me "you should be able to convince us in less than a page...".

I've heard it all, now.


Small point, Christine, but I never said that to you. That was someone else. I just wanted to set the record straight. 

More important, in my last post I explained peer review and why it's so important. Do you understand? Do you agree? I'm curious to know your thoughts on this. 
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#617  Postby Spearthrower » Sep 14, 2012 3:48 pm

twistor59 wrote::hide:

D'oh!

You must admit though: it does fit! I bet you and Christine would get along famously.


Edit: I bet your're THE ONE ON THIS PAGE though aren't you? Intelligent, erudite, ....capitalization-overzealous..... yeah I MUST have it right this time.



I am a very highly-intelligent, knowledgeable, qualified, scholarly, erudite learned woman of 53 years, and became spiritually-enlightened as of 1994


Why does Christine feel the need to keep telling everyone this?

Are these qualities that one can judge about oneself?

Are people not permitted to form their own opinions of this?

My opinion of this, resulting from the posts she's made here, does not entirely match Christine's stated opinion of herself. Who is right? Who judges? :coffee:
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#618  Postby Paul » Sep 14, 2012 3:49 pm

orpheus wrote:
christine wrote:

And the third response: to Orpheus - who said to me "you should be able to convince us in less than a page...".

I've heard it all, now.


Small point, Christine, but I never said that to you. That was someone else. I just wanted to set the record straight.  


No Orpheus - that's not how you do it it should be like this

Well, I really have seen it all, now!!!

THAT orpheus in the post you referenced IS NOT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not post under the name byofrcs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

By your WRONG ASSUMPTION that that was me, in the post you referenced, you have proved that you spiritualists take everything at face-value... for you MERELY ASSUMED that that was me.. you did not consider that there might be ANOTHER poster on this forum!!!!

How can you be so stupid as to see a "byofrcs" on a forum and make an ASSUMPTION that it was me?????!!!!!?????

Pathetic...
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#619  Postby Spearthrower » Sep 14, 2012 3:50 pm

christine wrote:To Twister59:

Well, I really have seen it all, now!!!

THAT Christine Thompson on the SNU website IS NOT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not live in Stafford, I live in Lincolnshire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

By your WRONG ASSUMPTION that that was me, on the SNU website, you have proved that you materialists take everything at face-value... for you MERELY ASSUMED that that was me.. you did not consider that there might be ANOTHER Christine Thompson in the country!!!!

....

How can you be so stupid as to see a "Christine Thompson" on a website and make an ASSUMPTION that it was me?????!!!!!?????

Pathetic...


I don't consider this to be a highly-intelligent, knowledgeable, qualified, scholarly, erudite, learned contribution.
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Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#620  Postby Fallible » Sep 14, 2012 3:57 pm

christine wrote:And now for the comment which "Fallible" made to me, today: saying "has it been half an hour yet?".
I said those words YESTERDAY, at about 9.30pm (UK time), and went back onto the computer about an hour later... so why don't you check on the day on which i actually said those words, huh, before you wrongly tried to make out I'd not gone back on the computer. For Heaven's sake, I do have other things to do in my life, I am not joined at the hip to the computer, like you lot seem to be.


I couldn't give a fur lined fuck about the order or chronology of your varied and copious wibblings. You have forfeited your right to any kind of respect from me, save that which the FUA affords all members, due to your persistent trolling and juvenile name-calling. It's a mystery to me how you have managed to avoid moderator intervention.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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