Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

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Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere. Yes or No ?

Yes
30
17%
No
129
72%
Yes But...Add your reason
11
6%
No But...Add your reason
10
6%
 
Total votes : 180

Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11841  Postby Hardcoreathiest » Feb 02, 2019 11:38 am

theropod wrote:

So, do you really seek my input, or is this just another chapter in a never ending novel?

RS


Thank you sir. I forgot my place..but if I can ask again the same. But this time it seems you plead for ever here on this thread that the mentioned works are not peer reviewed. But in the time in January I emailed correspondence to the scientists in earth expansion field. They tell me they work in science but cannot get any publication passed if there is mention to earth expansion for many years.. 20 years now.

Having to make some of their scholarly endevours hidden in peer reviewed papers as "stealth" so they can solicit competent peer review for future referencing. I can provide this list for you. So this cannot be their fault..if they endeavour to be scholarly yes ? Their position is stronger on the basis of this double battle so is healthy as it can be in respect to generation of null hypothesis, scholarly and systematic methods.

So now you are informed further, then to deny the work on the basis of what is peer reviewed is strategical yes.. for games.. but not reasonable for life science. As my request is for you to look at data.. if you remember ????? For myself it is seeming this debate for you to be as strategic for ignoring even the admission of evidence as lawyers do in court ? To refute evidence as inadmissible on some grounds of strategy just for the sake of personal win to the public audience ???



"Could you please if once use your expertise from your time in paleontology to describe how the data describe by Mr Stephen Hurrel has its source of errors ?

As the problem to me is his calculations seem to reasonable given his simple yet clear meta analysis of previous studies in his field. Where it appears he picks his numbers as the normal range of the data spread. And not just for one class of species, but birds also.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312687943_A_NEW_METHOD_TO_CALCULATE_PALAEOGRAVITY_USING_FOSSIL_FEATHERS


However regarding Brachiosaurus.. Can you provide more insight into his errors, specified towards the new 2018 data
“Abstract
There is great interest in calculating accurate values for Earth’s palaeogravity since the results have
profound implications for many sciences. One fundamental technique to quantify palaeogravity is to
compute weight against mass estimates of ancient animals.[b] In this paper this technique is applied to
Giraffatitan (=Brachiosaurus) brancai (MB.R.2181, formerly HMN S II), one of the most complete sauropod
dinosaur skeletons known. The results indicate that a palaeogravity of 0.54g (5.3 m/s2) ±20% is a reliable
estimate for 152 Ma.”


Image

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329586654_A_palaeogravity_calculation_based_on_weight_and_mass_estimates_of_Giraffatitan_Brachiosaurus_brancai

[/b]
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Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11842  Postby Cito di Pense » Feb 02, 2019 1:39 pm

Hardcoreathiest wrote:
Thank you sir. I forgot my place..but if I can ask again the same.


No, you can't. If your name is Joe Alan, and you're in Ireland, I'm Dejah Thoris, Princess of Helium. That just means that I'm treating your ostensible humility as phony from the word 'Go'. If you need still other reasons, I'll tell you: When an idea is dead at one venue, it's impolite to ask more than a couple of times for further peer review. Try a different venue.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11843  Postby Hardcoreathiest » Feb 02, 2019 3:13 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
Hardcoreathiest wrote:
Thank you sir. I forgot my place..but if I can ask again the same.


No, you can't. If your name is Joe Alan, and you're in Ireland, I'm Dejah Thoris, Princess of Helium. That just means that I'm treating your ostensible humility as phony from the word 'Go'. If you need still other reasons, I'll tell you: When an idea is dead at one venue, it's impolite to ask more than a couple of times for further peer review. Try a different venue.





in Ireland, they have long conflict with mainpower ... a nice country for EU visitors, chinese friends are welcome. I make my name for privacy.

But what you are saying has this . Given set of hypothesis for universal set is unknown. Now theories evolve verisimilitude.. but science always allows methodological rules to define falsification. Popper asked that falsified theories are to be considered in light of the phenomena with greater explanatory power from adding demarcation problem between science and non-science. In light of video at start of thread here, and thesis of James maxlow and others like Hurrell. Which has greater explanatory power ? Now you are to say that they should pursue other avenues. Yes, of course you can say this and ridicule or any other means. This is all acceptable and required in the conflict of ideas.

But given refusal of review not attaining the reviewers. This is due to the editor ? yes my friend ? Now you cannot use non peer review as excuse for validity. It is not logical as you provide impossible demands. Only if peer review exists as available. yes. But if not :naughty:
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Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11844  Postby Cito di Pense » Feb 02, 2019 3:27 pm

Hardcoreathiest wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
Hardcoreathiest wrote:
Thank you sir. I forgot my place..but if I can ask again the same.


No, you can't. If your name is Joe Alan, and you're in Ireland, I'm Dejah Thoris, Princess of Helium. That just means that I'm treating your ostensible humility as phony from the word 'Go'. If you need still other reasons, I'll tell you: When an idea is dead at one venue, it's impolite to ask more than a couple of times for further peer review. Try a different venue.





in Ireland, they have long conflict with mainpower ... a nice country for EU visitors, chinese friends are welcome. I make my name for privacy.

But what you are saying has this . Given set of hypothesis for universal set is unknown. Now theories evolve verisimilitude.. but science always allows methodological rules to define falsification. Popper asked that falsified theories are to be considered in light of the phenomena with greater explanatory power from adding demarcation problem between science and non-science. In light of video at start of thread here, and thesis of James maxlow and others like Hurrell. Which has greater explanatory power ? Now you are to say that they should pursue other avenues. Yes, of course you can say this and ridicule or any other means. This is all acceptable and required in the conflict of ideas.

But given refusal of review not attaining the reviewers. This is due to the editor ? yes my friend ? Now you cannot use non peer review as excuse for validity. It is not logical as you provide impossible demands. Only if peer review exists as available. yes. But if not :naughty:


Don't forget your situation. You request direct attention to your argument, and you're refused. You're not in a formal review process. "Explanatory power" is not meaningful unless you're trying to say what data set you're on, and you don't know what data set you're on. As far as I can tell, the rest of what you have to say is parroting nonsense proposed by other supporters of the same nonsense, and are not ideas you've developed on your own; the other nonsense has already been addressed, and you can read it in this thread. Try another venue.

Your privacy issues? You could just invent a nonsense name, like I have. You're not fooling anyone with "Joe Alan".
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11845  Postby theropod » Feb 03, 2019 2:48 pm

Hardcoreathiest wrote:
theropod wrote:

So, do you really seek my input, or is this just another chapter in a never ending novel?

RS


Thank you sir. I forgot my place..but if I can ask again the same. But this time it seems you plead for ever here on this thread that the mentioned works are not peer reviewed. But in the time in January I emailed correspondence to the scientists in earth expansion field. They tell me they work in science but cannot get any publication passed if there is mention to earth expansion for many years.. 20 years now.

Having to make some of their scholarly endevours hidden in peer reviewed papers as "stealth" so they can solicit competent peer review for future referencing. I can provide this list for you. So this cannot be their fault..if they endeavour to be scholarly yes ? Their position is stronger on the basis of this double battle so is healthy as it can be in respect to generation of null hypothesis, scholarly and systematic methods.

So now you are informed further, then to deny the work on the basis of what is peer reviewed is strategical yes.. for games.. but not reasonable for life science. As my request is for you to look at data.. if you remember ????? For myself it is seeming this debate for you to be as strategic for ignoring even the admission of evidence as lawyers do in court ? To refute evidence as inadmissible on some grounds of strategy just for the sake of personal win to the public audience ???



"Could you please if once use your expertise from your time in paleontology to describe how the data describe by Mr Stephen Hurrel has its source of errors ?

As the problem to me is his calculations seem to reasonable given his simple yet clear meta analysis of previous studies in his field. Where it appears he picks his numbers as the normal range of the data spread. And not just for one class of species, but birds also.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312687943_A_NEW_METHOD_TO_CALCULATE_PALAEOGRAVITY_USING_FOSSIL_FEATHERS


However regarding Brachiosaurus.. Can you provide more insight into his errors, specified towards the new 2018 data
“Abstract
There is great interest in calculating accurate values for Earth’s palaeogravity since the results have
profound implications for many sciences. One fundamental technique to quantify palaeogravity is to
compute weight against mass estimates of ancient animals.[b] In this paper this technique is applied to
Giraffatitan (=Brachiosaurus) brancai (MB.R.2181, formerly HMN S II), one of the most complete sauropod
dinosaur skeletons known. The results indicate that a palaeogravity of 0.54g (5.3 m/s2) ±20% is a reliable
estimate for 152 Ma.”


Image

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329586654_A_palaeogravity_calculation_based_on_weight_and_mass_estimates_of_Giraffatitan_Brachiosaurus_brancai

[/b]


Sorry, no, I will not discuss the paleo-gravity issue here. I’ve spent a solid year of my study time examining the matter, and detailed what I found in a distinct thread here on RatSkep. If you have any serious comments to make on the subject go find that thread and raise your issues there. Suffice it to say it is going to take some extraordinary data to overturn the extensive data set I presented therein. Also note that I abandoned that thread because there arose a very problematic, and intentionally obtuse, poster that exemplified the same trollish behavior that spawned this train wreck.

Peer review is extraordinarily tough not because it’s some secret society, but rather because only what can be demonstrated via testing which returns repeatedly positive results of an empirical nature is acceptable. Plate tectonics faced the same challenges as does EE, but the glaring differences are that plate tectonics has met the above criteria in spades. EE doesn’t, and cries like little bitches about it. Reread your own post for yet another example. Instead of wasting your time on this obscure little forum, and asking me questions I have addressed on a massive scale, go do the hard work required to support this notion. The continuation of these same sophomoric tactics we have endured for nearly a decade isn’t in any way adding to the respectability of this weapons grade bullshit.

Is this sufficient for you, or does your trolling gene probibit actual rational discourse?

RS
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Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11846  Postby Just A Theory » Feb 04, 2019 12:40 am

I'm still wondering where the extra mass is meant to come from?? :dunno:
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Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11847  Postby Flori@n » Feb 04, 2019 9:07 pm

Just A Theory wrote:I'm still wondering where the extra mass is meant to come from?? :dunno:


So am I...

Is there a moderator that can contact me in private? I lost my password and it seems that the "I forgot my password" function of the forum does not work properly. I never receive the email with the new password at my registered email address. Not in a junk mailbox either?
Had to create a new account to get in touch with an admin... :confused:

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Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11848  Postby kiore » Feb 05, 2019 3:41 am

Flori@n wrote:
Just A Theory wrote:I'm still wondering where the extra mass is meant to come from?? :dunno:


So am I...

Is there a moderator that can contact me in private? I lost my password and it seems that the "I forgot my password" function of the forum does not work properly. I never receive the email with the new password at my registered email address. Not in a junk mailbox either?
Had to create a new account to get in touch with an admin... :confused:

Florian



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Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11849  Postby ginckgo » Sep 24, 2019 4:27 am

I wonder how EE hypothesis explains this:

Orogenic architecture of the Mediterranean region and kinematic reconstruction of its tectonic evolution since the Triassic

Or as CNN put it A lost continent has been found under Europe

Basicall, there is evidence that a microcontinent fragment from Africa - named "Greater Adria" - had been overridden by the European continent. But how is that possible if Africa and Europe are not converging as we keep getting told?!?
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Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11850  Postby felltoearth » Sep 25, 2019 11:40 am

I just saw that and immediately thought of this thread.
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Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11851  Postby Hermit » Sep 25, 2019 1:46 pm

Nobody who supports the expanding earth hypothesis has managed to explain where the extra material for such expansion comes from.
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Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11852  Postby Spearthrower » Sep 25, 2019 2:06 pm

Hermit wrote:Nobody who supports the expanding earth hypothesis has managed to explain where the extra material for such expansion comes from.



Ahh that's carefully managed: they don't have to, you see, because all theories have a remit, and theirs isn't to explain how the Earth expands, only to say that it does.
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Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11853  Postby ginckgo » Oct 08, 2019 1:56 am

Hermit wrote:Nobody who supports the expanding earth hypothesis has managed to explain where the extra material for such expansion comes from.


I honestly don't care about the mechanism. First I need to see some actual evidence in the rocks that shows expansion is even a remotely likely hypothesis that even needs a mechanism.
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Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11854  Postby Hermit » Oct 08, 2019 8:54 am

ginckgo wrote:
Hermit wrote:Nobody who supports the expanding earth hypothesis has managed to explain where the extra material for such expansion comes from.

I honestly don't care about the mechanism.

That's what believers in Noah's flood do: The flood happened even though we can't explain where all that water came from, and where it disappeared to. Our belief renders a mechanism that makes the occurrence of the event plausible irrelevant.

ginckgo wrote:First I need to see some actual evidence in the rocks that shows expansion is even a remotely likely hypothesis that even needs a mechanism.

So, not particularly interested in the fundamentals of science.
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Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11855  Postby Spearthrower » Oct 08, 2019 9:28 am

Hermit wrote:
So, not particularly interested in the fundamentals of science.


Don't get me wrong: in the many years this thread continued, I persisted in driving at having the proponents offer a mechanism by which the Earth could expand. The lack of such a mechanism IS a problem in terms of their argument.

However, it is not contrary to the fundamentals of science to not produce explanatory theories. Measuring and describing are more fundamental, because they represent the methodological acquisition of data from which hypotheses and theories can be built.

I would personally argue that the goal of science isn't to measure and describe, but ultimately to use those measurements and descriptions towards an explanatory end, but I know plenty of qualified scientists who disagree most robustly with that.

Collecting butterflies, measuring and recording their anatomical dimensions, describing their colouration and behavior systematically, and collating reams of comparative morphological evidence of thousands of observations is science just as much as using that data to formulate hypothetical classificatory models delineating their species.

The problem with the EE model isn't just that there's no mechanism that could produce added mass, but rather that the idea is not consilient with numerous other well-known and firmly established quantities which say that mass cannot be being produced. Essentially, there's so much in contradiction to the notion of adding mass to the Earth, they'd need a very damn good reason to make their idea conceivable in the first place. The preponderance of evidence against the idea sets a bar they need to overcome, not evade.
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Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11856  Postby Svartalf » Oct 08, 2019 9:35 am

actually there's a mechanism to explain the added mass, it comes from meteorites.
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Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11857  Postby Spearthrower » Oct 08, 2019 9:36 am

Svartalf wrote:actually there's a mechanism to explain the added mass, it comes from meteorites.


Insufficient by a looooong stretch.
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Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11858  Postby Cito di Pense » Oct 08, 2019 9:41 am

Hermit wrote:Our belief renders a mechanism that makes the occurrence of the event plausible irrelevant.


I just finished parsing this. Meanwhile, I split a gut.
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Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11859  Postby Cito di Pense » Oct 08, 2019 9:45 am

Spearthrower wrote:I would personally argue that the goal of science isn't to measure and describe, but ultimately to use those measurements and descriptions towards an explanatory end, but I know plenty of qualified scientists who disagree most robustly with that.


They disagree because explanation is lodged somewhere up one's filosofeezical arse. We demonstrate that something has been explained by engineering with it in such a way that it stands up on its own.

This thread is, to significant degree, a mocking of the hubris of explanation absent the use of tools. There are many tools that EE proponents are unable to take up.
Last edited by Cito di Pense on Oct 08, 2019 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11860  Postby Cito di Pense » Oct 08, 2019 9:51 am

Spearthrower wrote:
Svartalf wrote:actually there's a mechanism to explain the added mass, it comes from meteorites.


Insufficient by a looooong stretch.


It's not just insufficient. It's insignificant.
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