Erakivnor wrote:

earthexpansion wrote:

Just A Theory wrote:
It's [the spreading ridge of the Indian Ocean - d.f.] very similar to the East African Rift which is currently spreading longitudinally. The observation presents no difficulties for Plate Tectonics.

Is it? I didn't know that. Who says so? And how long has it been "getting longer" for? And what's the reason for it being so slow compared to the oceanic one?

Maybe because it's breaking strong and buoyant continental lithosphere instead of already broken, "soft" oceanic lithosphere?

What does Just a theory means by "spreading" longitudinally? Does he actually mean that the rift is propagating? And what is the relationship between rift propagation and MOR lengthening?

earthexpansion wrote:

Erakivnor wrote:
Here is the whole story. You believe that mountains grow, and just erode, then collapse.

No. I *think* that 'mountains' are an expression of gravitational collapse as the curvature of the Earth changes. There is no 'growing'. Erosion and collapse are correct. Growing is not. That's a fundamental error

I strongly disagree. The change of curvature plays no significant role.

Oldskeptic wrote:Sorry to be a pain in the ass again, but Earth expansion requires a few things that you cannot explain. The first being that you cannot explain expansion of mass or volume...

The expansion of surface justifies the expansion in volume and mass.

Just A Theory wrote:
I already linked the Shapiro & Poupinet (2009) paper here when I first my first response to your assertions on geology.

That paper clearly shows continental ages between ~0.5 billion and ~3.5 billion years and fills in the 'grey' from Muller's diagram (which was clearly noted to be only about sea floor).

Guess what? the age of lithosphere is now available as a Google Earth overlay HERE thanks to you!

Just A Theory wrote:

Over-ridden, .. overridden crust.

Tomahto... tomayto...

Continental crust overrides the subducted oceanic crust.

Like Tomato ketchup overrides the subducted table

Just A Theory wrote:
From the Shapiro and Poupinet paper, looks like about 7-800 million years.

Nah the East African Rift system is much younger than that! Read a few of papers you found using Google Scholar.
And you apparently confuse rift propagation and MOR lenghtening?

Just A Theory wrote:
Sub-fucking-duction. The spreading is significantly balanced by subduction at continental margins and, in other places, by plates over-riding each other.

Wishful thinking. The surface of over-fucking-ducted crust has about the same size as the back-arc.

DavidMcC wrote:
You don't have to worry about that, JAT. You are not the only one here who regards the EE proponents as unscientific.
(I can't put it in stronger terms, because of the FUA!)

Curious forum where research scientists are painted as unscientific...

Just A Theory wrote:
I'm with Cito on this one though. If the Earth had expanded, the evidence would be literally everywhere.

They are everywhere! The MOR system, dramatically lenghtening and making new interconnections with time is a splendid evidence! The mobile belts and island arcs are all evidence of fresh mantle flows overprinting older surface.

Erakivnor wrote:
Topography and gravity anomaly in those areas weaken the gravity collapse mechanism instead of strengthening it...
Mediterranean: Alps not backed by density contrasts, low gravity roots.
Apennines/sardinia/Alboran/Albanides/NorthAfrica= thin orogens with lower topography behind their vergence and no frontal gravitational pressure gradient (e.g. thyrrenian sea with same elevation of thethyan remnants in the south mediterranean +/- 500 m).
This means that they should "collapse" towards the internal seas (western mediterranean, Thyrrenian) instead of towards the continents.
But if you could provide geological evidence to what you say it would be actually easier to discuss...

Interesting that you note they all thrust outward but neglect the origin of this characteristic outward motion.
They thrust outward from a spreading center (Apulia for the Alps). Ballooning of the spreading center provides the outward horizontal push.

Oldskeptic wrote:

I suggest that you take a look at some actual plateaus. I live on the Colorado plateau and there is very little flat about it.

Yes, that's true, .. topographically (locally) it is. But I'm talking about the flat surface from which the ruggedness is carved.



Looking south along the Colorado Plateau. Note the pin is Google's own Fly-to location point for [ "Colorado Plateau" ], not mine. Note also the breakaway on the right of the image causing the change in tilt of the central part relatinve to the rest of the strata. [Vertical exaggeration is x3]

Erosion is a fractal thing ...
http://www.fractal-recursions.com/files/zoom0001.html
- sort of, .. with (here) a very large scale difference overprinted. So we're also we're crossing a *behavioural* dynamic, from the build-up of stratigraphic sequence (due to erosion of some 'hinterland') to its destruction (also as an erosional thing) - [ "From flat to future flat, .. the relentless imperative of gravity", etc., etc.] Plateaus making up the flatness of mountains, .. to the flatness of stratigraphic sequence making up the sea floor, .. to the flatness of plateaus making up the flatness of mountains. *That's* the geological cycle - ...inexorable drop in sea-level due to inexorable rise of the crust outwards from the Earths centre leads to inexorable, continuing erosion. It's all happening in bits of course (the fractal thing), like the central area is dropping away from the regional flatness along that breakaway on the right. (If you spin the location around you'll see a drape-fold along the other breakaway edge on the left, downdropping the plain.) When the plateau is really high (when curvature is really resistant to change) then once it does give way it seriously begins to slide (Gravity is a Serious Force - not science fiction), that's when you get the circumglobal fold belt with its overethrusts and crustal shortening (of which this little bit in Colorado is part too). The huge uplift and equatorial dilation behind it (causing it) - is the Pacific breakthrough (with the Mediterranean its hinge).

(It's a scale thing).
(Hi Florian, .. good to see you back.)

Florian wrote:

DavidMcC wrote:
You don't have to worry about that, JAT. You are not the only one here who regards the EE proponents as unscientific.
(I can't put it in stronger terms, because of the FUA!)

Curious forum where research scientists are painted as unscientific...

"Research scientists" that barely publish in the peer-reviewed literature and, even then, never directly espousing an expanding Earth viewpoint.

Just A Theory wrote:

Florian wrote:

DavidMcC wrote:
You don't have to worry about that, JAT. You are not the only one here who regards the EE proponents as unscientific.
(I can't put it in stronger terms, because of the FUA!)

Curious forum where research scientists are painted as unscientific...

"Research scientists" that barely publish in the peer-reviewed literature and, even then, never directly espousing an expanding Earth viewpoint.

(Don't know how many times we have to say this) - For most 'scientists' publishing is about publishing, the 'science' is only the vehicle. If you think otherwise, you need a holiday.

P.S. Plate Tectonics *_IS_* Earth expansion, with that silly assumption about it not being possible (because of our challenged image-ination /observation) removed. ("Image" you know? .. The thing that happens upside down on the retina when we open our eyes, .. and we have to make it right way up? ) (Some can, .. some can't.)

earthexpansion wrote:

Just A Theory wrote:

Florian wrote:

DavidMcC wrote:
You don't have to worry about that, JAT. You are not the only one here who regards the EE proponents as unscientific.
(I can't put it in stronger terms, because of the FUA!)

Curious forum where research scientists are painted as unscientific...

"Research scientists" that barely publish in the peer-reviewed literature and, even then, never directly espousing an expanding Earth viewpoint.

(Don't know how many times we have to say this) - For most 'scientists' publishing is about publishing, the 'science' is only the vehicle. If you think otherwise, you need a holiday.

It's funny. I hear creationists and AGW deniers say the same thing.

earthexpansion wrote:
(Don't know how many times we have to say this) - For most 'scientists' publishing is about publishing, the 'science' is only the vehicle. If you think otherwise, you need a holiday.

You can say it as many times as you like, it won't make the statement true.

And, for the record, I am a True Scotsman.

P.S. Plate Tectonics *_IS_* Earth expansion, with that silly assumption about it not being possible (because of our challenged image-ination /observation) removed. ("Image" you know? .. The thing that happens upside down on the retina when we open our eyes, .. and we have to make it right way up? ) (Some can, .. some can't.)

I'll just repeat the list of stuff you have failed to address and add the latest:

• An explanation for the formation of the Hawaiian islands and the Yellowstone calderas
• From the same post, evidence for elastic deformation of the mantle on a planet-wide scale
• Any evidence that liquid water "sits on the surface of the mantle like a film" and that the continents float in/on the water film
• Seeing as you've decided to raise physics again, please provide a plausible mechanism for the addition of ~75% of the Earth's current mass over the last several hundred million years

earthexpansion wrote:(Don't know how many times we have to say this) - For most 'scientists' publishing is about publishing, the 'science' is only the vehicle. If you think otherwise, you need a holiday.

You know what, fuck you, you ignorant cunt, your cock-sucking strawmen are beyond the pale.

I'm a scientist, employed to be a scientist, I did my degree because I absolutely love science. I publish because I want to share the amazing things I've discovered, because I know noone has seen the things I'm publishing before. Every single scientist I know is exactly the same.

So your wackaloon view of science and scientists is not just demonstrably wrong, it is so insulting as to count as defamation.

PS, you haven't responded to my previous post where I list some objections to your insanity.

Erakivnor wrote:
PT well accounts for shortening in the Indian Ocean. Subduction does not occur only in the Pacific.
Redrawing the map you propose in your page I can't see that big difference between "initial rupture" and present length of corresponding margins.

IndianFit.jpg

I took into account only the central Indian Ridge.
I used transforms to mark limits of my line sketching. Arrows indicate active shortening for PT.
Please note that due to the type of projection distances are dilated towards south

@Erakivnor,

Indeed, the projection you used is rather unfortunate and we do not see the transforms on your figure.

I made a tentatively better figure to illustrate the point, i.e. MOR dramatic lengthening compared to initial break-up at the rift stage. What you call "shortening" is actually the Indonesia bulge that is progressing southwestward over the Indian Ocean, notably overprinting an extinct spreading ridge (extinction at 50 Ma):

Note that while the southern margin of that spreading center is still present and corresponds to the west coast of Australia (orange dash), the northern conjugate margin has been blown out by the Indonesian bulge.

Florian wrote:

Oldskeptic wrote:Sorry to be a pain in the ass again, but Earth expansion requires a few things that you cannot explain. The first being that you cannot explain expansion of mass or volume...

The expansion of surface justifies the expansion in volume and mass.

Circular reasoning is circular because circular reasoning is circular because circular reasoning is circular.

I may have missed something out there, but I will get back to you if i remember it.

Florian wrote:

Just A Theory wrote:
I'm with Cito on this one though. If the Earth had expanded, the evidence would be literally everywhere.

They are everywhere! The MOR system, dramatically lenghtening and making new interconnections with time is a splendid evidence! The mobile belts and island arcs are all evidence of fresh mantle flows overprinting older surface.

As in everywhere-so-that-noone-would-be-able-to-overlook-it-let-alone-consider-it-not-literally-everywhere.

earthexpansion wrote:

Just A Theory wrote:

Florian wrote:

DavidMcC wrote:
You don't have to worry about that, JAT. You are not the only one here who regards the EE proponents as unscientific.
(I can't put it in stronger terms, because of the FUA!)

Curious forum where research scientists are painted as unscientific...

"Research scientists" that barely publish in the peer-reviewed literature and, even then, never directly espousing an expanding Earth viewpoint.

(Don't know how many times we have to say this) - For most 'scientists' publishing is about publishing, the 'science' is only the vehicle. If you think otherwise, you need a holiday.

P.S. Plate Tectonics *_IS_* Earth expansion, with that silly assumption about it not being possible (because of our challenged image-ination /observation) removed. ("Image" you know? .. The thing that happens upside down on the retina when we open our eyes, .. and we have to make it right way up? ) (Some can, .. some can't.)

I think it's firmly established that if Don says up is up, check first. It's pretty much all bullshit that streams from his virtual gullet.

ginckgo wrote:ugh, I take some time off to celebrate out Lord and Savior, and I come back to a mountain of posts.

ginckgo wrote:

earthexpansion wrote:(Don't know how many times we have to say this) - For most 'scientists' publishing is about publishing, the 'science' is only the vehicle. If you think otherwise, you need a holiday.

You know what, fuck you, you ignorant cunt, your cock-sucking strawmen are beyond the pale.

Well, .. Talk about jumping in where a True Scotsman would Fear To Tread!!

Looks like you either didn't take enough time off, .. or your Lord and Saviour wasn't up to your expectations. Back to the confessional for you, or I'll report you to ol' Cigar-smoking Burka Blue-Eyes - for abuse. You certainly haven't *read* the posts, have you? .. either that or you're not getting them.

And PSSSt... you just blew it. Real scientists don't take time off. And what's more, they can read for meaning (usually). The airquotes indicate scientists who opt to be scientists, and are happy to ride on the gravy train - preferably in the dining car. The real ones (chosen by the science) are willing to put up with the dirt, to get underneath it and check the undercarriage . You make it clear to which branch you belong. Do an inventory check on yourself in another 20 years, .. and see what your opinon is then. My comment regards the film of water on the surface that Just-a-Theory evidently finds a bit slippy or he would have been right there in front of you. But if you feel entitled to barge in and grab his cap (and you evidently feel it's one worth wearing), by all means feel free. Evidently he's leaving it to you.

Anyway, by the looks of things right now (your earlier post) you're a pretty slow learner in your chosen field of enquiry. At least OldSkeptic there can recognise the Colorado Plateau is not flat. (And he lives there.) Does it look flat to you? Or is that another "strawman" JAT keeps talking about as well? What do the images on your retina tell you? If you can answer that one, I'll have a go at your post as you ask, .. but off the top of my head they don't merit that much comment. ( And don't much see why I should anyway. )

Doff the cap, mate, and straighten up. You're a big boy now, and by the sound of the box you've chosen for yourself, it's a pretty comfy one.

He's already been reported.

So have you for obvious trolling.

Hope you have a nice holiday Don. I'd say 'see you later' - but you know, with the world expanding, that's getting ever less likely by the day.