Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

Discussions on astrology, homeopathy and superstition etc.

Moderators: Calilasseia, DarthHelmet86, Onyx8

Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#81  Postby Agrippina » Oct 25, 2016 8:52 am

Sendraks wrote:
Vermeulen J. wrote: I try to stimulate people to educate themselves about the implications of the placebo/nocebo effect and the theory of 'German New Medicine' as to be prepared for when they, sooner or later, get caught in the mazes of the medical industry... If one doesn't understand that I'm trying to help here, then, by all means put your faith simply in the hands of the official medicine.


IS that you Kyranni? Back in a new guise to continue the spread of idiotic, unevidenced, harmful advice about cancer?


Funny you should ask that. I saw the writing and thought "hmm that sounds familiar". :ask:
Illegitimi non carborundum
User avatar
Agrippina
 
Posts: 36690
Age: 109
Female

Country: South Africa
South Africa (za)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#82  Postby Fallible » Oct 25, 2016 8:55 am

Well, there are lots of people who believe this crap, unfortunately. The English is too good.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 47
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#83  Postby Sendraks » Oct 25, 2016 9:43 am

Is there a hatching ground for this sort of crackpottery? A sort of Sargasso Sea for Kyrani's and just now they are migrating to this forum for some reason?

Fallible wrote: The English is too good.


Let's be fair here, Kyrani set the bar very low.
"One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion." - Arthur C Clarke

"'Science doesn't know everything' - Well science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it'd stop" - Dara O'Brian
User avatar
Sendraks
 
Name: D-Money Jr
Posts: 15239
Age: 104
Male

Country: England
Print view this post

Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#84  Postby Fallible » Oct 25, 2016 10:52 am

Yes, I meant the English is too good for it to be her.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 47
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#85  Postby Corneel » Oct 25, 2016 12:27 pm

Maybe it's the Jan Vermeulen mentioned here, a site that peddles these products, that would help against cancer and whose developer Dr. Tanaka apparently discourages using chemotherapy (see here).

Sorry, all links in Dutch.
"Damn it! Why am I arguing shit on the internet again!?"
"'cuz sometimes you just need a cumshot of stupid to the face?"

(from Something Positive)

The best movie theme ever

Ceterum censeo Praesidem Anguimanum esse demovendum
User avatar
Corneel
 
Posts: 1754
Age: 49
Male

Country: Mali
Belgium (be)
Print view this post

Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#86  Postby Sendraks » Oct 25, 2016 12:31 pm

Corneel wrote:Maybe it's the Jan Vermeulen mentioned here, a site that peddles these products, that would help against cancer and whose developer Dr. Tanaka apparently discourages using chemotherapy (see here).

Sorry, all links in Dutch.


Could be. Alas, its all Dutch to me.
"One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion." - Arthur C Clarke

"'Science doesn't know everything' - Well science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it'd stop" - Dara O'Brian
User avatar
Sendraks
 
Name: D-Money Jr
Posts: 15239
Age: 104
Male

Country: England
Print view this post

Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#87  Postby aban57 » Oct 25, 2016 12:48 pm

Vermeulen J. wrote:
And yes, I can look myself in the eyes with a clear conscience because I'm not trying to persuade anybody to 'do nothing' (or go on a diet, or something else) when they're diagnosed with any kind of disease, but to question 'modern medicine' who, after all, admits to know close to nothing about the cause for most diseases (cancer being no exception), yet declares itself as the sole expert on this subject... I try to stimulate people to educate themselves about the implications of the placebo/nocebo effect and the theory of 'German New Medicine' as to be prepared for when they, sooner or later, get caught in the mazes of the medical industry... If one doesn't understand that I'm trying to help here, then, by all means put your faith simply in the hands of the official medicine.

Where the hell did you get this extremely stupid (and blatantly false) information ?
aban57
 
Name: Cindy
Posts: 7376
Age: 41
Female

Country: France
Belgium (be)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#88  Postby DaveD » Oct 25, 2016 2:04 pm

It's the "it's full of poisons" line that always annoys me, as if that means it's automatically bad. You get the same nonsense from antivaxxers.
Everything is a poison if you have enough of it. If you drink enough water, it will kill you. Chocolate is a toxin. And so on.
Medicines tend to be more toxic than most foods, which is why there are detailed instructions on dosage on medicine bottles. I'm pretty sure doctors are careful with dosages of whatever chemo they prescribe.
Image
User avatar
DaveD
 
Name: Dave Davis
Posts: 3028
Age: 62
Male

Country: UK
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#89  Postby Shrunk » Oct 25, 2016 2:25 pm

I'll just add that, if we ever reached that point that it was true that most cancer patients who did die did so as a result of the side effects of chemo, that would be a very happy day:

Mortality within 30 days of chemotherapy: a clinical governance benchmarking issue for oncology patients


Abstract:
No national benchmark figures exist for early mortality due to chemotherapy unlike for surgical interventions. Deaths within 30 days of chemotherapy during a 6-month period were identified from the Royal Marsden Hospital electronic patient records. Treatment intention – curative or palliative, cause of death and number of previous treatments – were documented. Between April 2005 and September 2005, 1976 patients received chemotherapy with 161 deaths within 30 days of chemotherapy (8.1%). Of these, 124 deaths (77.0%) were due to disease progression. Of the other 37 deaths, 12 (7.5%) were related to chemotherapy, six each for solid tumours and haematological malignancies, of which seven (4.3%) were due to neutropenic sepsis. For the remaining 25 deaths (15.5%) there was insufficient information. There were more deaths after third and subsequent lines of therapy than with first and secondlines of therapy. Only 12 of the 161 deaths occurred in patients who were receiving potentially curative chemotherapy to give a mortality rate in breast and gastrointestinal malignancy of 0.5 and 1.5%, respectively. It is possible to audit mortality within 30 days of chemotherapy and this should become a benchmark for standard practice nationally. Most deaths were due to disease progression in the palliative setting. We practice this form of audit each quarter and feed back to the treating teams so that deaths are discussed and practice monitored.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2360753/
"A community is infinitely more brutalised by the habitual employment of punishment than it is by the occasional occurrence of crime." -Oscar Wilde
User avatar
Shrunk
 
Posts: 26170
Age: 55
Male

Country: Canada
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#90  Postby laklak » Oct 25, 2016 2:30 pm

:this:

If (more probably when) I get cancer I'm hitting it with everything I can. As long as it's one amenable to chemo, of course. Chemo, radiation, surgery, diet, holistic whatever. If it's a bad one that isn't particularly treatable I'll just go palliative and try to enjoy what time I have left. It's just death, which is a pretty common problem.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - Mark Twain
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! - Chicken Little
I never go without my dinner. No one ever does, except vegetarians and people like that - Oscar Wilde
User avatar
laklak
RS Donator
 
Name: Florida Man
Posts: 20756
Age: 66
Male

Country: The Great Satan
Swaziland (sz)
Print view this post

Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#91  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 25, 2016 3:02 pm

Corneel wrote:Maybe it's the Jan Vermeulen mentioned here, a site that peddles these products, that would help against cancer and whose developer Dr. Tanaka apparently discourages using chemotherapy (see here).

Sorry, all links in Dutch.


I think you are onto it Corneel. That is why the English is better.
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” — Napoleon Bonaparte
User avatar
Scot Dutchy
 
Posts: 43119
Age: 71
Male

Country: Nederland
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#92  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 25, 2016 3:08 pm

laklak wrote::this:

If (more probably when) I get cancer I'm hitting it with everything I can. As long as it's one amenable to chemo, of course. Chemo, radiation, surgery, diet, holistic whatever. If it's a bad one that isn't particularly treatable I'll just go palliative and try to enjoy what time I have left. It's just death, which is a pretty common problem.


I am at an age that if anything is discovered I would not take chemo. I went through it with my girl friend but she was only 46. The side effects were terrible and it was only thanks to her spirit that things were never black. I would prefer euthanasia.
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” — Napoleon Bonaparte
User avatar
Scot Dutchy
 
Posts: 43119
Age: 71
Male

Country: Nederland
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#93  Postby Agrippina » Oct 25, 2016 6:50 pm

I don't know what I'd do. I'll deal with problems when they arise. Right now I have too many to think about what ifs.
Illegitimi non carborundum
User avatar
Agrippina
 
Posts: 36690
Age: 109
Female

Country: South Africa
South Africa (za)
Print view this post

Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#94  Postby scott1328 » Oct 25, 2016 7:35 pm

I don't regret the radical orchiectomy I had back in April. I don't feel duped. I only feel relieved. And if I have to undergo chemo therapy, I will do so.
User avatar
scott1328
 
Name: Some call me... Tim
Posts: 8678
Male

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#95  Postby Macdoc » Oct 25, 2016 8:05 pm

Join the singles club ???
I got the whole enchilada....6 weeks chemo, 3 spinal chemo and 17 radiation shots.

Lymphoma??
Travel photos > https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries
EO Wilson in On Human Nature wrote:
We are not compelled to believe in biological uniformity in order to affirm human freedom and dignity.
User avatar
Macdoc
 
Posts: 17156
Age: 73
Male

Country: Canada/Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#96  Postby Weaver » Oct 25, 2016 8:27 pm

Macdoc wrote:Join the singles club ???
I got the whole enchilada....6 weeks chemo, 3 spinal chemo and 17 radiation shots.

Lymphoma??

Now that's just hitting below the belt.

OK, sorry Scott - I'll stop now.
Image
Retired AiF

Cogito, Ergo Armatus Sum.
User avatar
Weaver
RS Donator
 
Posts: 20125
Age: 52
Male

Country: USA
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#97  Postby Vermeulen J. » Oct 26, 2016 7:46 am

DaveD wrote:It's the "it's full of poisons" line that always annoys me, as if that means it's automatically bad. You get the same nonsense from antivaxxers.
Everything is a poison if you have enough of it. If you drink enough water, it will kill you. Chocolate is a toxin. And so on.
Medicines tend to be more toxic than most foods, which is why there are detailed instructions on dosage on medicine bottles. I'm pretty sure doctors are careful with dosages of whatever chemo they prescribe.


I doubt that water or chocolate will burn your skin like chemo does ("How do you treat a chemo burn?" https://www.caring.com/questions/chemo-burn). What baffles me is how all these victims of chemo burns are horrified by the effects of chemo on their skin (and deeper layers), but fail to ask themselves the obvious question: if this stuff burns away skin tissue, what the hell will it do INSIDE of me!? Again, if this (chemotherapy) would have been an 'alternative' idea/practice, it would never have been approved by the FDA, if just on grounds of being way too toxic (the FDA had all 'apricot kernels' removed from the shelfs of bio-shops and they warned the public for the toxicity of apricot kernels - in short, the FDA forbids the use of apricot kernels based alleged toxicity!). Doctors have been send to jail for prescribing amygdalin/B17/laetrile (the anti-cancer ingredient that is found in apricot kernels and hundreds of other nuts/plants like, for instance, bitter almonds, which are not on the FDA's black list :-)). Of course when the first official testing of 'apricot kernels' (B17/amygdalin/laetrile) turned out to be positive, this was quickly 'remedied' by counter tests and it all ended with the for-mentioned action of the FDA.
Vermeulen J.
 
Posts: 5

Belgium (be)
Print view this post

Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#98  Postby Vermeulen J. » Oct 26, 2016 8:50 am

Sorry to disappoint but I'm neither 'Kyrani', 'Kyranni' nor 'Jan Vermeulen'.

I've wasted too much time at forums like this already and since I'm only trying to inform 'the public' about alternative views on what causes 'disease' (which automatically leads to alternative ways to handle disease too, naturally), it's again time for me to move on. How the medical establishment manages to scare the public into harsh treatments like chemotherapy is obvious to me, but I have to admit that they put me to sleep for many years too (I've had doctors telling me that a dear one 'reacted badly to the chemo treatment', after she only lived through it for about five weeks - it was just the onset of lung cancer - and I even thanked them for doing their best!). When I learned about 'German New Medicine' (GNM), back in 2009, finally I put one and one together and since that day (actually the night before my ex-girlfriend was about to undergo mutilating surgery) the fear based propaganda of our 'health care system' doesn't effect me anymore.

The link between prolonged stress and disease has to be kept far from the public, because otherwise the whole medical industry would collapse. It's as simple as that. Anything counter to the official medical theories has to be fenced off (ridiculed, forbidden, etc.). For every study like this "Striking life events associated with primary breast cancer susceptibility in women" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3751759/ and "Stressful life events and risk of breast cancer in 10,808 women" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12615606 there are counter studies (and this is true for any kind of 'study', which is why people have to educate themselves in order to make up their own minds, but surely it's easier to just follow 'main stream science', although all these studies are performed by members of this same 'elite'...).

The second study above concluded: "The findings suggest a role for life events in breast cancer etiology through hormonal or other mechanisms." Of course, even though they suggest 'other mechanism', they never mention the work of dr. Hamer (who handed over his 'German New Medicine' theory to the university of Tübingen in the form of a post doctoral thesis, back in 1981, which to this day they've always refused to test!), simply because they either never heard of it (!) or, more likely, there's no official evidence to back up his theory. GNM has been verified many times already (by many doctors and even a university - http://www.newmedicine.ca/verification.php), but as long as the medical establishment refuses to perform an official evaluation of GNM (and just puts GNM on the black list of forbidden theories/treatments, simply because they have the power to do so...) all members of the 'medical science elite' have to (officially) ignore dr. Hamer's work, because they're only aloud to move around within the restricted framework of their own 'group'.

I hope some people can see through this masquerade and do some investigating on their own (which is not easy, I know). Good luck to all who have their hearts in the right place.
Vermeulen J.
 
Posts: 5

Belgium (be)
Print view this post

Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#99  Postby Sendraks » Oct 26, 2016 8:55 am

Vermeulen J. wrote:I've wasted too much time at forums like this already and since I'm only trying to inform 'the public' about alternative views on what causes 'disease' (which automatically leads to alternative ways to handle disease too, naturally), it's again time for me to move on.


No one here is interested in "alternative views" because anecdote and opinion, are not compelling. If you've got some evidence to support your claims (as opposed to the mangled and misunderstood leavings you've presented thus far), then there is a discussion to be had. As it stands, you're saying nothing we've not heard before and it wasn't convincing then.

Vermeulen J. wrote:I hope some people can see through this masquerade and do some investigating on their own (which is not easy, I know). Good luck to all who have their hearts in the right place.


Please, by all means, stop wasting our time with your ill-intentioned, condescending, fuckwittery. Go preach your bullshit elsewhere.
"One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion." - Arthur C Clarke

"'Science doesn't know everything' - Well science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it'd stop" - Dara O'Brian
User avatar
Sendraks
 
Name: D-Money Jr
Posts: 15239
Age: 104
Male

Country: England
Print view this post

Re: Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy

#100  Postby Macdoc » Oct 26, 2016 9:06 am

Seconded vociferously. :coffee:
Travel photos > https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries
EO Wilson in On Human Nature wrote:
We are not compelled to believe in biological uniformity in order to affirm human freedom and dignity.
User avatar
Macdoc
 
Posts: 17156
Age: 73
Male

Country: Canada/Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Pseudoscience

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest