My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#61  Postby tolman » Sep 03, 2013 7:25 pm

paulbargate wrote:So saying just because we have not built a Pyramid today doesn`t mean we can`t I disagree

Well, if you have read the thread and you still say that (assuming you didn't misunderstand what you wrote), I guess you must have issues with English comprehension or basic logic.

Obviously (as pointed out earlier) there are any number of things we don't do for reasons other than impossibility, such as those things having costs which exceed any conceivable benefit.

Doing something proves something can be done.
Not doing something in and of itself proves nothing.

Now, if someone claims something is possible which people doubt is possible, and the thing would be cheap/easy to do, or somewhat costly an investment but likely to be profitable, it's reasonable for people to ask why the thing hasn't been done by the person making the claim.
If someone claims they can easily make gold from talcum powder, or run a car on nothing but water by making cheap modifications, then people are justified in concluding the claims are probably false if the claimant refuses to do them, since there would be few credible reasons the claimant could give for failing to make a demonstration, while a successful demonstration would make them rich and famous.

On the other hand, when the task concerned would clearly be vastly expensive and almost certainly wildly unprofitable, asking someone who claims the task is possible "Why haven't you done it then, eh?" would be retarded and childish, since obviously, whether the thing was possible or not, only an idiot would try and do it.

In a situation where the seemingly best qualified people to speculate on the feasibility seem to think the task is within human capability, and where the task isn't radically different to tasks which humans clearly can do, if the best question someone who doubts the task possible can come up with is still "Why haven't you done it then, eh?", it suggests that that person really has little in the way of sensible reasons for their position.

And obviously, the seemingly best qualified people are people like engineers with no obvious axe to grind one way or another, and proper archaeologists, not people who make money selling books to the gullible, or pretending in the face of scientific evidence that a human skull is half alien, or any of their followers.
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#62  Postby paulbargate » Sep 03, 2013 7:31 pm

Also don`t forget to place 144,000 outer mantle stones with an accuracy of 1/100th of an inch, each stone polished to a mirror finish and weighing in a cool 15 ton each, don`t suppose that will be to difficult the Pyramid is only 481 feet tall.
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#63  Postby Onyx8 » Sep 03, 2013 7:33 pm

paulbargate wrote:

snip

As for motivating 1000 `s of men to build such structures that I would like to see they must certainly be very different to people today, getting a days work out off people today can be some what trying.

snip


What are you talking about? Millions of people, actually billions of people, are motivated to work everyday all over the planet.
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#64  Postby BlackBart » Sep 03, 2013 7:43 pm

paulbargate wrote:Also don`t forget to place 144,000 outer mantle stones with an accuracy of 1/100th of an inch, each stone polished to a mirror finish and weighing in a cool 15 ton each, don`t suppose that will be to difficult the Pyramid is only 481 feet tall.


Yeah? So?
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#65  Postby Weaver » Sep 03, 2013 8:19 pm

I love those claims of accuracy. Rough cut stones were put in place then polished together leaving a very smooth transition from one stone to the next - and leaving idiotic conspiracy theorists to claim that the stones were fitted to within 1/100 of an inch - because that is the final accuracy after polishing them together.

Utterly clueless.
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#66  Postby paulbargate » Sep 03, 2013 8:34 pm

Wow sticks an stones come on guys, I`m not trying to needle you honest, lol.
LLoyd Pye thinks there has been some intervention with Human genes by a more superior race possibly Alien, I think its possible, are you saying its not ? we can go round in circles, neither off you can prove yes or no, so that puts it evens though I do get the feeling you believe you are more knowledgeable than Mr Pye, and that`s fine I won`t comment on that.
Your also closed to the Idea that anyone but the the ancient Egyptians could have built the Pyramids why cause you were told so read it in a book,I won`t comment on that either.
I was told I would not get the UK record with my car in the specific class I race in, But rather than than right a page full off waffle [tolman] defending my inabilities, reasons, not to do it. I took a more useful route [less practiced these day usually by academics] involving taking out engine rebuilding increasing power beyond what was thought possible for my car and altered gear box ratios to suit new power and torque off engine altering suspension set up and promptly set a new UK record.
My background is doing not talking, we can all waffle to varying degrees, pumped up with our superior knowledge but impress me ? no
Try thinking outside the box take on board all that`s said and broaden your vision and who knows maybe you could build a Pyramid
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#67  Postby Onyx8 » Sep 03, 2013 8:36 pm

How did you motivate yourself to do all that work on your car? I don't think it is very likely that you could do that.
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#68  Postby Paul » Sep 03, 2013 8:38 pm

Not without help from a superior race, possibly alien.
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#69  Postby paulbargate » Sep 03, 2013 8:45 pm

    Weaver wrote:I love those claims of accuracy. Rough cut stones were put in place then polished together leaving a very smooth transition from one stone to the next - and leaving idiotic conspiracy theorists to claim that the stones were fitted to within 1/100 of an inch - because that is the final accuracy after polishing them together.

    Utterly clueless.


    That`s interesting did you figure that out all by yourself or did you actually get up off your backside and actually do something to demonstrate this, and what tools did you use to get this accurate polished finish [pledge]
    Oh I know you read about it did research while sat on arse and the then smugly tell every one how its done. got to love this guy/gal .
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    Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

    #70  Postby paulbargate » Sep 03, 2013 8:52 pm

    Paul wrote:Not without help from a superior race, possibly alien.


    Fair cop I`m in touch with the Ananarki they gave me a few tips Cam duration and overlap intake lenght to back off valve how to alter tracts for inlet and exhaust. Valve seat cuts injector positioning compression ratio and much much more primary lenghts in relation to cam timing and crank position.
    Its still a fact I held the UK record.
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    Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

    #71  Postby paulbargate » Sep 03, 2013 8:57 pm

    Onyx8 wrote:How did you motivate yourself to do all that work on your car? I don't think it is very likely that you could do that.


    I like to win and if someone tells me I can`t do something I try and prove them wrong.
    And you maybe don`t think I could that but I did and unlike a lot of the naysayers on here I can prove it not that I feel I need to get on the net and do ya home work see for yourself.
    And thanks for the faith it appears I`m a liar now wooooh
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    Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

    #72  Postby tolman » Sep 03, 2013 8:59 pm

    paulbargate wrote:Also don`t forget to place 144,000 outer mantle stones with an accuracy of 1/100th of an inch, each stone polished to a mirror finish and weighing in a cool 15 ton each, don`t suppose that will be to difficult the Pyramid is only 481 feet tall.

    Only a moron or a liar would claim many people think or claim building the pyramids would be easy.

    But 'difficult' or 'time-consuming' simply aren't the same thing as 'impossible', or even vaguely similar to impossible, and the more someone tries to pretend otherwise, the more foolish they will look.

    The incredulity of someone who knows little or nothing about masonry is evidence of nothing other than their limited knowledge.
    Which is not a sin in itself, only if they are trying to leverage their ignorance to try and make a bogus argument.

    One might wonder, were amazing alien technology responsible, why the second great pyramid was smaller and seemingly less well-built than the first?

    Of course, humans making something to a given timescale or with fewer resources would be expected to provide a less-good result, yet if pyramid conspiracy nuts are to be believed, that second pyramid would have been impossible without major alien intervention.
    Alien stone transport, alien stone lifting tech, alien stone sizing, alien stone positioning, alien stone polishing.

    What went wrong?
    Fusion batteries running low in the pryamid-builder machine the aliens had brought with them on their journey, on the off-chance it might come in handy?
    Still, I guess the aliens were fortunate to find a planet with people who had been building pyramids for centuries, and who wanted some larger ones.
    How lucky is that?

    It's like some aliens with special technology seemingly useless for anything other than making medically inadvisably large boxes of doughnuts happening to land in a trailer park in 21st century USA.
    Or aliens with advanced technology for making small cars look extremely silly at great expense happening to land in Essex.
    Last edited by tolman on Sep 03, 2013 9:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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    Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

    #73  Postby paulbargate » Sep 03, 2013 9:11 pm

    There`s so much negative on here how do you all get up on a morning
    I just have an interest in were we came from as I stated in earlier post I feel the human race is out on it s own on this planet something to me doesn`t seem quite right it doesn`t really matter I have many interests obviously like every one on here I can prove nothing I have only been around 53 years just a blip in infinity.
    But I enjoy opinions of Pye, Freidman, Schnieder, green, etc etc etc
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    Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

    #74  Postby paulbargate » Sep 03, 2013 9:19 pm

    And I enjoy some off the posts on here
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    Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

    #75  Postby Onyx8 » Sep 03, 2013 9:24 pm

    paulbargate wrote:
    Onyx8 wrote:How did you motivate yourself to do all that work on your car? I don't think it is very likely that you could do that.


    I like to win and if someone tells me I can`t do something I try and prove them wrong.
    And you maybe don`t think I could that but I did and unlike a lot of the naysayers on here I can prove it not that I feel I need to get on the net and do ya home work see for yourself.
    And thanks for the faith it appears I`m a liar now wooooh



    Whooosh!
    The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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    Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

    #76  Postby Thommo » Sep 03, 2013 9:25 pm

    paulbargate wrote:There`s so much negative on here how do you all get up on a morning


    I can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't, except for the alien lifting beam plucking me out of bed and trivialising an otherwise impossible task.
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    Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

    #77  Postby Onyx8 » Sep 03, 2013 9:26 pm

    There's no negativity here, I for one am positively full of awe at how well done the pyramids are and have huge respect for the abilities and knowledge of the people who built them.
    The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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    Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

    #78  Postby tolman » Sep 03, 2013 9:33 pm

    paulbargate wrote:LLoyd Pye thinks there has been some intervention with Human genes by a more superior race possibly Alien, I think its possible, are you saying its not ?

    Does anyone who actually knows more than bugger-all about genetics see any evidence for alien intervention*?

    Seems his 'Starchild' alien-human hybrid skull just had human DNA when it was actually tested.
    If he now wants to pretend it's alien by influence rather than by miscegenation, why should any biologist really take him seriously?
    His claim isn't a scientific one.
    It's a claim which is [constructed to be] unfalsifiable, and is therefore pseudoscience, and the province of the 'mind/body/spirit/bullshit' section of bookshops.

    paulbargate wrote:I was told I would not get the UK record with my car in the specific class I race in, But rather than than right a page full off waffle [tolman] defending my inabilities, reasons, not to do it. I took a more useful route [less practiced these day usually by academics] involving taking out engine rebuilding increasing power beyond what was thought possible for my car and altered gear box ratios to suit new power and torque off engine altering suspension set up and promptly set a new UK record.

    Which I'm sure is impressive to people who care about motorsport, and I'm sure you got satisfaction from doing.
    Good for you.

    But unless you're equating modifying a car with someone spending countless millions they're unlikely to ever get back to prove something they don't doubt and which hardly anyone does doubt, it's entirely irrelevant.

    It illustrates perfectly what I was saying about someone doing something relatively easy (like something one person can afford out of their own resources) which is worth it to them even if they might not make a financial profit.
    If you'd been claiming you could break the record within a feasible budget, other people would have had good cause to ask "Well, why haven't you?", since you'd be claiming something which it seemed likely you would have some reason to try and do, and which you were also claiming was practical for you to achieve with resources you could hope to obtain.

    It's utterly irrelevant to people understandably seeing no point whatsoever in pissing a fortune away on a full-scale reconstruction with the seeming sole aim of trying to prove to alien-believers that humans could have done something which pretty much all the people who seem qualified to talk about already think humans could have done.
    I don't do sarcasm smileys, but someone as bright as you has probably figured that out already.
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    Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

    #79  Postby paulbargate » Sep 03, 2013 9:38 pm

    Both Weaver and Tolman I think are interesting guys and I do take on board what they say even if it is a bit one way traffic, but there is always something to learn.
    I do ponder though why they seem to be against the idea that there is life elsewhere? I would like to get beyond the previous posts and understand there back ground thinking and how it has come to being.
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    Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

    #80  Postby tolman » Sep 03, 2013 9:48 pm

    I'm not at all against the idea there is life elsewhere.
    It seems highly likely that there is, quite likely some fraction of it complex, and some of that fraction intelligent.

    That said, it's uncertain how practical long-distance interstellar travel might be, and whether a civilisation which could accomplish it would use it for tourism and tinkering rather than either study or colonisation.

    It would seem peculiar for people who could travel between the stars to land here and seemingly do nothing better than help some people make somewhat larger piles of rock.
    That would seem a strange middle ground between observation and noninterference on the one hand and actually doing something useful on the other.
    I don't do sarcasm smileys, but someone as bright as you has probably figured that out already.
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