My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

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My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#1  Postby Kytescall » Mar 07, 2011 10:09 pm

A friend of mine asked me to look into this guy called Lloyd Pye, who is famous for the so-called Starchild skull, a 900-year old skull of what is probably a child with hydrocephaly or some similar disorder, which he claims is an alien-human hybrid.

Those who know anything about genetics will cringe at the stupidity in this video:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moEYqLdupIA[/youtube]

Additionally, he also claims that Big Foot/Yeti are neanderthals or something. The specious claims and poor logic in his numerous videos are easy to debunk, but it was not until I saw this video, in which he uses an argument from incredulity to claim that the pyramids were created by aliens, that I somehow felt obliged to comment:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yCP6owFLc8[/youtube]

What followed is not particularly interesting I guess, but it is quite typical of what I've come to expect from these sorts of people. They can't handle any criticism at all (I am Sapieteuthid, OfficialLloydPye appears to be the man himself):

Pye's only argument here is that because he can't imagine how ancients could have built these structures, they must have been built by aliens. This is an unrealistically simplistic leap. It doesn't follow.
If existing hypotheses of their construction methods are flawed, why not debunk them? Instead, he just ignores them and only presents what amounts to his gut feeling.
his is only convincing to people who already agree to him. Not anyone else.
• Sapieteuthid 18 hours ago

@Sapieteuthid : You're right, it's basically a close-minded approach (yours) versus an open-minded approach (mine). Since humans can't recreate such structures today using the best people and equipment we have, I think it's fair to suggest aliens had a hand in it. However, you're free to believe in all the magic you need to make it happen at the hands of the primitives alive at those times.
• OfficialLloydPye 17 hours ago

@OfficialLloydPye On the contrary, I think I am very open minded - this is why I care about evidence and good arguments. The video comes up short. There is nothing there other than Pye's appeal to the incredulity of his laymen audience. If he doesn't even address existing hypotheses, what can an impartial observer assume but that he didn’t even do his research?
The fact that HE can't think of a way ancients could have done this means nothing to me. Why should it?
• Sapieteuthid 16 hours ago

@Sapieteuthid : It's clear YOU have never done a lick of research into this problem, which anyone reading your comments can see. That said, my argument is not based on MY opinion about it, but on the fact that NOBODY can come up with a plausible way for primitive people to cut, shape, move, lift, and set in place 2000 ton stones (Baalbek) of surpassing hardness. You've obviously never heard what engineers have to say about solving the problems involved. You're making an ass out of yourself here.
• OfficialLloydPye 15 hours ago

@OfficialLloydPye Which engineers? Could you be specific?
And I don't see on what you're basing your claim that I have never done any research. I have made no claims on the subject. All I have done is pointed out that you (or Pye, if you are not he) have not presented any meaningful arguments. Viewers are given no evidence to base their opinions on. They must either take your word for it, or not. And as someone who cares about what is true and what isn't, it's not in my nature to do that.
• Sapieteuthid 15 hours ago

@OfficialLloydPye I have to add that your reactionary hostility is not in the spirit of reasoned discourse. If you can't respond to any criticism without becoming annoyed or angry, you are too emotionally attached to your ideas. Do you always interpret disagreement as a hostile act?
• Sapieteuthid 15 hours ago

@Sapieteuthid : I deal with plenty of disagreement. It comes to me almost every day. It's the supercilious assholes like you that wear me down. That's all.
• OfficialLloydPye 56 minutes ago

@Sapieteuthid : Which engineers? Start with Chris Dunn. His work is easy to find. And I've given nothing but meaningful arguments. No one with any sense or knowledge of the subject of megalithic edifices tries to pretend that ancient peoples created them. Only people like you, with apparently no awareness of the real facts surrounding them, make the kind of asinine statements you're making about them. Again, this is not a place for people like you who don't know their stuff.
• OfficialLloydPye 15 hours ago

@OfficialLloydPye Due skepticism is asinine? You have provided nothing except what amounts to an emotional appeal. That you react with such hostility to how I don't accept your argument from incredulity at face value undermines your credibility because this is neither mature nor how a true academic behaves. Do not expect thinking people to agree with you just because you say so.
• Sapieteuthid 14 hours ago

@OfficialLloydPye Regarding Chris Dunn, I'm now reading his website. The basis for his claim that Giza is some sort of reactor is rather elusive. Needless to say his opinions are fairly bizarre and uncommon. Are you sure that you were correct in using the plural "engineerS"? I don't imagine very many agree with his conclusions.
• Sapieteuthid 14 hours ago

@Sapieteuthid : Reading excerpts from Chris' website is not reading his books. When you read his books, THEN you have the right to say his ideas are "rather elusive." Just because they SEEM elusive to a dimwit like you, that doesn't mean they actually are, does it?
• OfficialLloydPye 54 minutes ago

@Sapieteuthid : Yes, plural is definitely the word for engineers who disagree with the "official party line" of the mainstream that you're trying to spout here on a site dedicated to the opposite viewpoint. What a moron you are! Do you think you can make a valid point here without actually knowing what you're talking about?
• OfficialLloydPye 52 minutes ago

@Sapieteuthid : My position as stated is based on enormous amounts of research by many, many people, not one of which you've heard of, much less read. So this debate we're having is not "because I say so," it is merely "because you THINK so." You're parroting what the mainstream wants non-thinking bozos like you to believe, and you have fallen for it. Please stop bothering this list with your inanities. This is for people with smarts.
• OfficialLloydPye 6 hours ago

@OfficialLloydPye I'm afraid if you've done "enormous amounts of research", it just doesn't show. One would expect more substantiative arguments than "look it's so big", especially if it's intended for people with "smarts". And don't think I buy that arm chair conspiracy sound bite that the "mainstream" is somehow out to suppress you. That's a pitiful excuse made by people whose claims do not survive fair scrutiny, and are unable to handle that failure.
• Sapieteuthid 1 hour ago

@OfficialLloydPye I'm looking into your many claims because a friend asked me to. She thought you were convincing, but she highly values my judgement.
Well, I have been to your websites, watched a number of your lectures, and I have found your evidence specious, your reasoning wishful and flawed, and rhetorical style meant to sound convincing to the sufficiently gullible. And now I learnt something of your character. You will now lose yourself a supporter.
• Sapieteuthid 1 hour ago

@Sapieteuthid : Listen, if you're the best source of authority your friend could turn to, I feel sorry for her. Every once in a while a stiff-backed troll like you wanders into one of my threads and shows incredible ignorance of even basic understanding of the facts at issue. Megaliths are one of the most obvious "fingerprints of the gods" anywhere in the world, and most mainstream urchins have the good sense to stay away from them. You should have followed that wise path.
• OfficialLloydPye 46 minutes ago

@OfficialLloydPye I already expect this to be futile, but why don't you give me one piece of evidence that they were built by aliens? Just remarking on their size doesn't cut it. If you can't imagine a way sufficiently clever and dedicated humans could have built them, that's only a remark on your imagination. It doesn't follow that therefore it was aliens. Incredulity-based arguments are worthless, and people who describe themselves as "smarts" should not waste their time on them.
• Sapieteuthid 16 minutes ago

@Sapieteuthid : By the way, if you're the "supporter" (don't make me laugh!) that I'm losing, all I can say is "good riddance"!
• OfficialLloydPye 45 minutes ago

@OfficialLloydPye My friend is the supporter who asked me to investigate your claims, as I said. Is this failure in reading comprehension quite typical for you?
Never mind, I don't care. I already have far more then I need to convince my friend that your claims are without merit. But based on how you have demonstrated complete intolerance for skepticism and scrutiny, I can also tell her that you are intellectually a juvenile.
• Sapieteuthid 24 minutes ago

@Sapieteuthid : Is this habit of shooting your mouth off when you haven't the foggiest idea what you're talking about typical for you? Never mind, I don't care, either. Tell her anything you want. Adios.
• OfficialLloydPye 16 minutes ago

@Sapieteuthid : Look, you're a mainstream shill, that's obvious to anyone reading your string. Why don't you just pack up and go home? This is not a place where you're going to find any comfort. You clearly don't know what you're talking about, you've probably never studied anything relating to the engineering of megalithic monuments or working with megalithic stones, so you're making a fool out of yourself. Give it up.
• OfficialLloydPye 50 minutes ago

@OfficialLloydPye Yeah, fair skepticism = 'shill' and 'asshole'. Such paranoia and reactionary hostility is completely typical of people whose claims do not stand up to scrutiny.
I'm afraid all I'm getting from this exchange is that you're just an average peddler of pseudoscience who covers up the weakness of his arguments by inventing pointless and implausible conspiracies against them or their ideas. You have confirmed my suspicions.
• Sapieteuthid 33 minutes ago

@Sapieteuthid : Excuse me, but from the first message you wrote you were challenging me in a very offensive and small-minded way. You haven't deserved common courtesy since your first message, so you haven't gotten it. If you were a critic or even a skeptic, we probably would have gotten along. But you are obviously a debunker, someone who just attacks without knowing the first thing about the subject, and I have no respect for that.
• OfficialLloydPye 26 minutes ago

@OfficialLloydPye Nothing I said in my first comment was offensive or "small-minded". It was a simple observation. Your argument in your video is, in fact, based incredulity, which makes it a piss-poor argument.
Your interpretation of this as deliberate hostility tells me that despite what you claim, you do not know how to handle scrutiny or criticism.
• Sapieteuthid 10 minutes ago
... for doubt and secrecy are the lure of lures, and no horror can be more terrible than the daily torture of the commonplace. ~ H.P. Lovecraft, Ex Oblivione

Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. ~ Carl Sagan, Cosmos
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#2  Postby Onyx8 » Mar 08, 2011 2:33 am

Was it good for you too, honey? :grin:
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#3  Postby harddrive » Dec 22, 2011 9:16 pm

I feel, like you, that Lloyd Pye merely postulates without hard evidence on any subject he advocates. i.e. megaliths, the starchild skull, the pyramids, aliens, et al. I wonder if he has ever heard of Edward Leedskalnin. He built the Coral Castle in south Florida. Fascinating structure. And an interesting man he was. He claims he figured out the secret of the ancient Egyptians and that if simple ol' Ed could do it, we could too.
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#4  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 23, 2011 12:47 pm

It's not even original - it's wholesale ripped off of Hancock, Bauval, and von Daniken.
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#5  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 23, 2011 12:54 pm

And wow Kytescall... whoever it was that responded to you was seriously on the attack. It's agree with me or be damned.
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#6  Postby BlackBart » Dec 23, 2011 1:31 pm

The usual crap. Ad Hominems in place of evidence and facts.
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#7  Postby Calilasseia » Dec 27, 2011 7:48 pm

Oh by the way, with respect to moving big blocks about ... I remember seeing a video clip in which a guy demonstrates how this can be done, using palaeolithic technology. I'll see if I can find the video in question and post it here.
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#8  Postby Calilasseia » Dec 27, 2011 7:53 pm

Here you go ...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K7q20VzwVs[/youtube]
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#9  Postby Moonwatcher » Dec 27, 2011 10:54 pm

He just baselessly asserts that nobody can figure out how people of that technological level could have moved those blocks of stone. It's the same thing Creationists do, just asserting "facts" that are not facts at all. There have been numerous theories of how it could be done, some with actual demonstrations to show that it works, such as the one Cali posted.

Using rocks for turning the blocks and numerous logs to roll the blocks, it has been shown that one person can move tons using strictly prehistoric technology. Then add that there were thousands of people involved in moving the stone blocks for things like the pyramids.

Not all people from thousands of years ago were "piss-stained nomads". Some people thousands of years ago were geniuses that put modern day Creationists and Conspiracy theorists to shame, especially considering the access to modern information these Creationists and Conspiricists have and simply ignore in favor of their ignorance.
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#10  Postby Nostalgia » Dec 28, 2011 1:08 am

:coffee:
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#11  Postby rEvolutionist » Mar 29, 2012 1:15 pm

:clap: Good stuff, Kytescall! You handled him well. You can just see that he probably fumed about that conversation for days afterwards, because in his heart he knows you made him look like a fool.
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#12  Postby amkerman » Mar 29, 2012 1:31 pm

I thought the other guy came out on top.
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#13  Postby Scar » Mar 29, 2012 1:38 pm

amkerman wrote:I thought the other guy came out on top.


Of course you do.
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#14  Postby HughMcB » Mar 29, 2012 1:44 pm

@Sapieteuthid : You're right, it's basically a close-minded approach (yours) versus an open-minded approach (mine). Since humans can't recreate such structures today using the best people and equipment we have, I think it's fair to suggest aliens had a hand in it. However, you're free to believe in all the magic you need to make it happen at the hands of the primitives alive at those times.
• OfficialLloydPye 17 hours ago

I never quite understood these claims. Three gorges dam, Panama Canal, Space Shuttle, the ISS, Burj Khalifa, Hangzhou bay bridge, Large hadron collider, the list goes on and on. But yet he's claiming we can't built a pyramid, cut a stone with a straight edge or move exceptionally large rocks? :scratch:

Does this guy live in the 21st century? :dunno:
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#15  Postby rEvolutionist » Mar 29, 2012 1:51 pm

amkerman wrote:I thought the other guy came out on top.


:rofl:

(I'm assuming that was a joke)
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#16  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 27, 2012 3:40 am

Scar wrote:
amkerman wrote:I thought the other guy came out on top.


Of course you do.



This is of no surprise whatsoever. There are studies on this kind of thing! :)
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#17  Postby Penser » Nov 06, 2012 7:03 pm

Interested in the evolving debate, I have just spent several hours looking into Mr Lloyd Pye and his beliefs. Try as I might, I have failed to find an example where he offers his opinion(s). This man appears to deal with facts and for everything he writes is supported by 'a fact'.

@Sapieteuthid, whilst it is important you have the opportunity to give your opinion, I truly believe that you are out of your depth and have gained the opinion that you just like arguing, if only for the hell of it. One can see that Mr Pye dedicates his life to chasing truth, I am curious as to the efforts you have gone to to make your views so relevant.

Of course we are all entitled to our own line of thinking, but I see very little evidence that yours is actually based upon anything. Just because we don't understand something ourselves, doesn't mean that it must be wrong!

Rather that just showing you dissagree with the views of Mr Pye, perhaps you could find the time to explain to us why it is you dissagree? What do you know that he does not?

I await with interest

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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#18  Postby Thommo » Nov 06, 2012 8:13 pm

Penser wrote:Interested in the evolving debate, I have just spent several hours looking into Mr Lloyd Pye and his beliefs. Try as I might, I have failed to find an example where he offers his opinion(s).


How hard did you try?

Here's his 2nd sentence, easily findable with 2-3 seconds of concerted effort, and already reproduced in this thread at least once:-

Since humans can't recreate such structures today using the best people and equipment we have


This is not only an opinion, it's an incorrect one.
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#19  Postby Penser » Nov 06, 2012 8:22 pm

What is your point Thommo?

You have quoted a fact so I can only assume you agree with me. We are unable to build a pyramid (for example) of the same magnitude as those found in the valley of the kings, Egypt with our current technologies and tools available to us. Unless of course you have managed to do it?
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Re: My exchange with Lloyd Pye (UFO/Big Foot conspiracy nut)

#20  Postby Thommo » Nov 06, 2012 8:38 pm

Penser wrote:What is your point Thommo?

You have quoted a fact so I can only assume you agree with me. We are unable to build a pyramid (for example) of the same magnitude as those found in the valley of the kings, Egypt with our current technologies and tools available to us. Unless of course you have managed to do it?


We have built buildings bigger than the pyramids, that's exactly the point. E.g. the Abraj Al Bait towers.

Every major capital city in the world has thousands of times more volume, mass, floorspace, height etc. of buildings than the pyramids.

And why would you suggest that knowledge of this fact would require me to have personally (and on my own?!) built such a structure, that just seems odd. :scratch:
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