NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#41  Postby DavidMcC » May 17, 2015 3:17 pm

lucek wrote:...
Have you read this thread. Bashing a man who show greater understanding of the theories in question because you have why? What is your point what do you even have to add to the conversation. You shown no understanding the math or the physics. Why even bother.

Simple: physics, without the fantasising engaged in by your hero.
White is making stuff up to support his rubbish. Note that there is no independent confirmation of his results. I wonder why?
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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#42  Postby DavidMcC » May 17, 2015 3:24 pm

... Furthermore, your attempt to use White's title, Dr, to pull rank doesn't cut any ice with me, because I know from experience at university, how some academic organisations maximise their financing by finding a "sympathetic" external PhD examiner for someone who could otherwise have problems.
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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#43  Postby lucek » May 18, 2015 11:15 pm

DavidMcC wrote:... Furthermore, your attempt to use White's title, Dr, to pull rank doesn't cut any ice with me, because I know from experience at university, how some academic organisations maximise their financing by finding a "sympathetic" external PhD examiner for someone who could otherwise have problems.

Dave I guessing it means he has at least basic reading compression. Go reread my last post before you keep going on here. Or are you looking for a fight and have to pretend that strawman is me.
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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#44  Postby DavidMcC » May 21, 2015 12:01 pm

lucek wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:... Furthermore, your attempt to use White's title, Dr, to pull rank doesn't cut any ice with me, because I know from experience at university, how some academic organisations maximise their financing by finding a "sympathetic" external PhD examiner for someone who could otherwise have problems.

Dave I guessing it means he has at least basic reading compression
compression? I assume you mean "comprehension".
Go reread my last post before you keep going on here. Or are you looking for a fight and have to pretend that strawman is me.

I think I read you well enough to know that you are defending White's pseudoscience. His qualification does not eliminate the possibility that he is misusing said qualification in much the same way that Behe misuses his to push creationism.
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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#45  Postby DavidMcC » May 21, 2015 2:13 pm

lucek wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
lucek wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
I suspect that Harold needs a course in philosophy of science, because he is clearly sticking to his falsified ideas, even though he helped falsify them himself!

You having fun?

Why do you ask? Are you still "stuck in a rut" of support for White's pseudoscience?

Have you read this thread. Bashing a man who show greater understanding of the theories in question because you have why? What is your point what do you even have to add to the conversation. You shown no understanding the math or the physics. Why even bother.

White wasn't talking about virtual particles, because spaceships aren't made of them, lucek, they are made of real particles. Therefore, what makes you think he has more understanding.
Again if you read the thread I know there are more likely solutions to anomalous acceleration then acceleration of virtual particles. That doesn't mean that you aren't far wronger then Dr. White.

Enough of this nonsense about "anomalous acceleration". You should stick with your geology. You're on safer safer ground there.
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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#46  Postby DavidMcC » May 21, 2015 2:18 pm

... I'm still waiting for someone other than White to find an error in Newton's third law, but I'm not holding my breath, because that is part of the bedrock of physics, one that survives the inaccuracy of the second law at very high speeds.
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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#47  Postby Ironclad » May 24, 2015 4:15 pm

Jesus fucking christ, do you HAVE to jump into every damn physics thread with this same BS!
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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#48  Postby lucek » May 24, 2015 7:09 pm

DavidMcC wrote:... I'm still waiting for someone other than White to find an error in Newton's third law, but I'm not holding my breath, because that is part of the bedrock of physics, one that survives the inaccuracy of the second law at very high speeds.

Dave read what is said. Dr. White A wasn't the one who designed built or tested this originally and B no one is saying this is a violation of Newton's third law. Most people are saying there is contaminants or ablation accounting for the anomalous thrust. Dr. White is claiming virtual particles do. Everyone is saying that there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Again why do you feel the need to be in this thread when you've never apparently read what the thread is about.
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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#49  Postby lucek » May 24, 2015 7:11 pm

DavidMcC wrote:I think I read you well enough to know that you are defending White's pseudoscience. His qualification does not eliminate the possibility that he is misusing said qualification in much the same way that Behe misuses his to push creationism.

Really?
lucek wrote:I've read about this and an anomalous signal in a noisy system with no theoretical backing doesn't constitute proof.

Shut up Dave or actually read what has been said.
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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#50  Postby DavidMcC » May 26, 2015 3:45 pm

lucek wrote:Again why do you feel the need to be in this thread when you've never apparently read what the thread is about.

Steve wrote:NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

The EM drive is controversial in that it appears to violate conventional physics and the law of conservation of momentum; the engine, invented by British scientist Roger Sawyer, converts electric power to thrust without the need for any propellant by bouncing microwaves within a closed container. So, with no expulsion of propellant, there’s nothing to balance the change in the spacecraft’s momentum during acceleration. Hence the skepticism. But as stated by NASA Eagleworks scientist Harold White:
[quote][T]he EM Drive’s thrust was due to the Quantum Vacuum (the quantum state with the lowest possible energy) behaving like propellant ions behave in a MagnetoHydroDynamics drive(a method electrifying propellant and then directing it with magnetic fields to push a spacecraft in the opposite direction) for spacecraft propulsion.
...


Thus, it troubles me that you seem to actually believe your strange claim that "no-one is talking about violation of Newton's third law", which has to do with conservation of total linear momentum. I would have though it was obvious even to you, that White was claiming to have found a violation of the third law. :roll:
EDIT: The bit I've bolded is suspiciously like pseudoscience, even if it was Sawyer who devised it, and certainly points to the need for independent verification of the supposed thrust and its mechanism.
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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#51  Postby DavidMcC » May 26, 2015 4:25 pm

Perhaps it's you who needs to "shut up", lucek:
From earlier in the thread:
http://www.wired.com/2015/05/nasa-warp-drive-yeah-still-poppycock
For example: How might the EM Drive get around that pesky conservation-of-momentum problem? Eagle works says the microwave field generated in the drive’s cavity could be pushing against quantum vacuum virtual plasma. “The problem is there’s no such thing,” says Davis. Millis, for his part, doesn’t even pay attention to White’s work out of Eagleworks: “If it’s not impartial, I don’t read it.”
...
For example: How might the EM Drive get around that pesky conservation-of-momentum problem? Eagle works says the microwave field generated in the drive’s cavity could be pushing against quantum vacuum virtual plasma. “The problem is there’s no such thing,” says Davis. Millis, for his part, doesn’t even pay attention to White’s work out of Eagleworks: “If it’s not impartial, I don’t read it.”
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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#52  Postby DavidMcC » May 26, 2015 4:36 pm

Still, at least the mods have put this thread in "Pseudoscience", where it belongs. A pity they were persuaded by Cdesign... to move my own thread on his work out of that forum and into "Physics". :roll:
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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#53  Postby DavidMcC » May 26, 2015 5:45 pm

I note that you apparently disagree with White on this specific point, but how do you square that with your support for his 3rd-law violating proposals in the "FTL at JPL" thread?
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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#54  Postby lucek » May 26, 2015 7:59 pm

You know what Dave you're right I'm shutting up and reporting you for personal attacks again. I remind you the same bloody one you were suspended for on the other thread.
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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#55  Postby DavidMcC » May 27, 2015 11:35 am

lucek wrote:You know what Dave you're right I'm shutting up and reporting you for personal attacks again. I remind you the same bloody one you were suspended for on the other thread.

So, it's OK for you to tell me to "shut up", but not OK for me to merely bounce it back? You must think you have the mods under your thumb, or something. :scratch: One rule for you, another for me.
Is this another ploy to distract from my argument that White is a pseudoscientist that you have been supporting until now? Do you really think that Millis was only referring to the EM drive, and not also White's other "big thing" - FTL warp drives - when he said he ignores ALL of White's "work out of Eagleworks"?
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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#56  Postby lucek » May 27, 2015 6:47 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
lucek wrote:You know what Dave you're right I'm shutting up and reporting you for personal attacks again. I remind you the same bloody one you were suspended for on the other thread.

So, it's OK for you to tell me to "shut up", but not OK for me to merely bounce it back? You must think you have the mods under your thumb, or something. :scratch: One rule for you, another for me.
Is this another ploy to distract from my argument that White is a pseudoscientist that you have been supporting until now? Do you really think that Millis was only referring to the EM drive, and not also White's other "big thing" - FTL warp drives - when he said he ignores ALL of White's "work out of Eagleworks"?

Asking you to shut up is fine, Calling me an FTLer is what got you in trouble before and why I neither want to deal with you or will put up with your shit anymore.
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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#57  Postby DavidMcC » May 28, 2015 12:31 pm

I don't do "shit". But it's fine with me if you don't post to me any more.
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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#58  Postby newolder » Jul 28, 2015 7:15 pm

No, German Scientists Have Not Confirmed the “Impossible” EMDrive George Dvorsky writes...
...
Davis noticed some problems in the experiment as well.

“I noted in [the study’s] conclusion paragraphs that [Tajmar’s] apparatus was producing hundreds of micro-Newtons of thrust when it got very hot and that his measuring instrumentation is not very accurate when the apparatus becomes hot,” Davis told io9. “He also stated that he was still recording thrust signals even after the electrical power was turned off which is a huge key clue that his thrust measurements are all systematic artifact false positive thrust signals.”

...
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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#59  Postby Blackadder » Jul 28, 2015 7:42 pm

newolder wrote:No, German Scientists Have Not Confirmed the “Impossible” EMDrive George Dvorsky writes...
...
Davis noticed some problems in the experiment as well.

“I noted in [the study’s] conclusion paragraphs that [Tajmar’s] apparatus was producing hundreds of micro-Newtons of thrust when it got very hot and that his measuring instrumentation is not very accurate when the apparatus becomes hot,” Davis told io9. “He also stated that he was still recording thrust signals even after the electrical power was turned off which is a huge key clue that his thrust measurements are all systematic artifact false positive thrust signals.”

...


Well that seems to comprehensively piss all over the chips of the EMDrive for now. :grin:
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Re: NASA: EM Drive shown to work in space-like vacuum

#60  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Jul 28, 2015 9:39 pm

I suspected this wouldn't pan out. Would have been amazing if it did though.
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