What is the difference between NS and HS?

HS has application beyond biology. By means of Human selection.

The evolution of the automobile.

From the common ancestor of the wheel to all road traffic today. Do we have a tree for that?

Look all around you. Know that everything evolves.

...

Paul.

Ultimately, in the face of the debunking of your quaint ideas, you will opine that your objectors here are simply reluctant to "change the way they look at things" snip

Your fooling yourself. The lack of direct rational counter arguments to my claims is because there are none.

NS = hs = AS. Mix and match . What a tangled mess.

Paul.

pfrankinstein wrote:
3,Artificial intelligence makes Artificial selection.

This is where much of the confusion comes from, I think. You are using a nonstandard nomenclature.

National Geographic Artificial selection is the identification by humans of desirable traits in plants and animals, and the steps taken to enhance and perpetuate those traits in future generations.

Berkeley Long before Darwin and Wallace, people were using selection to change the features of plants and animals. Farmers and breeders allowed only the plants and animals with desirable characteristics to reproduce, causing the evolution of farm stock. This process is called artificial selection because people (instead of nature) select which organisms get to reproduce.

Science Direct (a paper) Artificial selection is the process by which humans choose individual organisms with certain phenotypic trait values for breeding.

Wikipedia Selective breeding (also called artificial selection) is the process by which humans use animal breeding and plant breeding to selectively develop particular phenotypic traits (characteristics) by choosing which typically animal or plant males and females will sexually reproduce and have offspring together.

Dictionary.com Artificial selection a process in the breeding of animals and in the cultivation of plants by which the breeder chooses to perpetuate only those forms having certain desirable inheritable characteristics.

Biologydictionary.com Artificial selection or selective breeding describes the human selection of breeding pairs to produce favorable offspring.

If you like, I can show you the second page of the definitions.

But in the Darwinian sense of evolution ... it is the plant or animal's environment that is doing the selecting. The environment could be a wild habitat, a habitat shaped by humans to various degrees, or even a habitat shaped by a hypothetical artificial intelligence. Of course this sense of 'evolution' need not be restricted to life. But this sense of the word is restricted to things that replicate. So do snowflakes replicate?

pfrankinstein wrote:Ultimately, in the face of the debunking of your quaint ideas, you will opine that your objectors here are simply reluctant to "change the way they look at things" snip

Your fooling yourself. The lack of direct rational counter arguments to my claims is because there are none.

NS = hs = AS. Mix and match . What a tangled mess.

Paul.

There was a lot in my previous post we could have talked about, but you chose that tiny little snippet.

You should have quoted the whole paragraph....

THWOTH wrote:...

Ultimately, in the face of the debunking of your quaint ideas, you will opine that your objectors here are simply reluctant to "change the way they look at things", and you'll no doubt go to some lengths to cast that as a moral and/or cognitive failing, before admonishing them for not going to enough lenghts to demonstrate to your satisfaction that your notions about the nature of the material world are not true - hence you find this discussion siloed to the pseudoscience section of the forum.

Now, what was that about counter arguments?

THWOTH wrote:

pfrankinstein wrote:Ultimately, in the face of the debunking of your quaint ideas, you will opine that your objectors here are simply reluctant to "change the way they look at things" snip

Your fooling yourself. The lack of direct rational counter arguments to my claims is because there are none.

NS = hs = AS. Mix and match . What a tangled mess.

Paul.

There was a lot in my previous post we could have talked about, but you chose that tiny little snippet.

You should have quoted the whole paragraph....

THWOTH wrote:...

Ultimately, in the face of the debunking of your quaint ideas, you will opine that your objectors here are simply reluctant to "change the way they look at things", and you'll no doubt go to some lengths to cast that as a moral and/or cognitive failing, before admonishing them for not going to enough lenghts to demonstrate to your satisfaction that your notions about the nature of the material world are not true - hence you find this discussion siloed to the pseudoscience section of the forum.

Now, what was that about counter arguments?

More of a summation than a question. Nothing specific just all of it.

Fact is my theory is well within the zone of rational.
As the subject of Evolution is understood today you cannot explain where the biological process.
The "origin of ", maybe answerd in a disjointed way physics chemistry biology. My explanation works.

Have taken the key components (mechanism, selection) and regressed them; not so far to render them meaningless.

To descend down through time, to become modified and the nature of the modification selected.

The process of primordial evolution by means of Primal selection.

Do you see. To have biological generations time is a key factor, generations ride on time.

To have Evolution of any type there must be the means of knowledge storage and the means to pass on that knowledge.

You be that rock being drawn toward a star. Inorganic material stores knowledge of interaction in the material itself and on to the next encounter.

Solar systems Evolve sure they do. In the real sense of meaning. Tick the boxes. Mechanism, selection.

Paul.

THWOTHcognitive failing, before admonishing them for not going to enough lenghts to demonstrate to your satisfaction that your notions about the nature of the material world are not true - hence you find this discussion siloed to the pseudoscience section of the forum. snip

No rhyme nor reason I find myself in psudoscience.

Go test the theory. Primal selection check. Natural selection check, human selection check, artificial selection check.

An organon. You don't see many of them eh mods?

Paul.

https://youtu.be/aQUlA8Hcv4s

National geographic. Artificial selection is the identification by humans of desirable traits in plants and animals, and the steps taken to enhance and perpetuate those traits in future generations. snip

And the steps taken to enhance. An action. Enhance by a human hand by any chance.?

A blurred line, a difinitive description of the manipulation "human artificial selection ".

Paul

Berkeley Long before Darwin and Wallace, people were using selection to change the features of plants and animals. Farmers and breeders allowed only the plants and animals with desirable characteristics to reproduce, causing the evolution of farm stock. This process is called artificial selection because people (instead of nature) select which organisms get to reproduce.

>>>
Why not just call it what it is. People = human. So " Human selection."

Put the thinker back in the thonker. Out pop's a man. By means of Human selection.

Artificial selection has only just got started ahem.

Paul.

https://youtu.be/WeYqJxlSv-Y

Thwoth
Now, what was that about counter arguments? snip

How am i going to prove " by means of human selection" sir?

How many roses by means of human selection?


https://youtu.be/obkrMiyDrbs
Paul.

Wikipedia Selective breeding (also called artificial selection) is the process by which humans use animal breeding and plant breeding to selectively develop particular phenotypic traits (characteristics) by choosing which typically animal or plant males and females will sexually reproduce and have offspring together.snip

By which humans.....Can't get away from the human aspect of meaning. ....Hints at it but doesn't say concisely the action.

Say what you see, sharpen pencils "human selection".

Human selection a newly discoverd phenominon.

Paul.

Biologydictionary.com Artificial selection or selective breeding describes the human selection of breeding pairs to produce favorable offspring.

Again the hint of actuality by mention of human. Good job I got here when I did. eh?

Paul.

pfrankinstein wrote:
Why not just call it what it is. People = human. So " Human selection."

Because, as it was pointed out to you before, "human selection" has a slightly different meaning. It also applies to selection within a human population, so the term ideally should be avoided (in my opinion) unless it rigorously defined.

So back on point. Evolution in its Darwinian sense applies to replicators. Do snowflakes replicate?

A very simple question.

romansh wrote:

pfrankinstein wrote:
Why not just call it what it is. People = human. So " Human selection."

Because, as it was pointed out to you before, "human selection" has a slightly different meaning. It also applies to selection within a human population, so the term ideally should be avoided (im my opinion) unless it rigorously defined.

You do understand that Science itself evolves. Check for mechanism. Type of selection.

All present ; descent modification selection. ....Knowledge data . stored and passed on.

Science sir; by means of human selection or good intelligent selection?

https://youtu.be/kBYHwH1Vb-c

Paul.

pfrankinstein wrote:
You do understand that Science itself evolves.

Yes ... definitely in the generic sense and perhaps even in the memetic sense, the latter would be an interesting discussion.

Do you understand whether snowflakes replicate or not?

romansh wrote:

pfrankinstein wrote:
You do understand that Science itself evolves.

Yes ... definitely in the generic sense and perhaps even in the memetic sense, the latter would be an interesting discussion.

Do you understand whether snowflakes replicate or not?

Hypothosis, theory, then law. You can practically hang your cloths on the frame. Gravity toward a law.

Science itself evolves by descent with modification and by means of a yet to be determined type of "selection.

I have the hypothosis that Science itself evolves .

Paul.

pfrankinstein wrote:
I have the hypothosis that Science itself evolves .

Paul.

Do you have a hypothesis for whether snowflakes replicate or not?

Thwoth
If you like, I can show you the second page of the definitions. snip

If they all hint at "human selection and fall at the last forget it.

Artificial selection, get away with you. You can't fool me they all describe "human selection and then the meme takes hold.

Say what you see. Say what you see. Human selection.

AI is in its infancy. Human selection built the cog that became AI.

If the sentence rings true then chronologically human selection had to come before Artificial selection.

With what we understand today.that is.

Paul.

pfrankinstein wrote:THWOTH: "cognitive failing, before admonishing them for not going to enough lenghts to demonstrate to your satisfaction that your notions about the nature of the material world are not true - hence you find this discussion siloed to the pseudoscience section of the forum." snip

No rhyme nor reason I find myself in psudoscience.

Go test the theory. Primal selection check. Natural selection check, human selection check, artificial selection check.

See. There you go again with exactly what I mentioned - and you don't even realise it.

THWOTH wrote:

pfrankinstein wrote:THWOTH: "cognitive failing, before admonishing them for not going to enough lenghts to demonstrate to your satisfaction that your notions about the nature of the material world are not true - hence you find this discussion siloed to the pseudoscience section of the forum." snip

No rhyme nor reason I find myself in psudoscience.

Go test the theory. Primal selection check. Natural selection check, human selection check, artificial selection check.

See. There you go again with exactly what I mentioned - and you don't even realise it.

Much on trust .

Much depends on trust, sir... Everyday knowledge does not just work while you think about it. 

The protoplanetary disc and the solar system, spiral galaxies—you see the motion picture and you can imagine how it works.

In your mind's eye, "ping." "While you think on it... look at all of it... the rest of the time the thought just goes by in your routine."

Without biological life, clutter The cosmos stands alone. View it. 

Test my primal selection... The fact is, I attempt to say one logical thing about the Cosmos.

Imagine the bang. Ahhh.  See the solar system evolve in your mind's eye by means of "primal selection." 

My theory of "primal selection" is testable for those who have a mind too. Easy.  The mechanism is present.

Between me and you, sir, what I have done is use the item "Biological Evolution" as a fulcrum.

With my lever of "primordial evolution," I intend to put "man" in the frame.

From rock to life and on into the minds of men my theory goes.

By observation.

Paul.

THWOTH wrote:

pfrankinstein wrote:THWOTH: "cognitive failing, before admonishing them for not going to enough lenghts to demonstrate to your satisfaction that your notions about the nature of the material world are not true - hence you find this discussion siloed to the pseudoscience section of the forum." snip

No rhyme nor reason I find myself in psudoscience.

Go test the theory. Primal selection check. Natural selection check, human selection check, artificial selection check.

See. There you go again with exactly what I mentioned - and you don't even realise it.

Think on it sir. The BB. Red shift a constant. ?

I was kind of hopein that NS and HS were real phenominon and " by use ; a sling shot P.S.. Triangulation. Ps.

How to scientifiquement prouvé NS HS.?

Paul.