The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Split

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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#641  Postby GenesForLife » Jun 10, 2010 6:33 pm

The validity of the theory is subject to evidence and not your opinion, please keep up.
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#642  Postby Dr. Nancy Malik » Jun 10, 2010 6:35 pm

gilthanass wrote:
Since you claim that it is the succession that confers magical properties on water (and not just the dilution, since that would mean water has a memory of everything on earth), design a way to distinguish between this group of test subjects (in any way you can think of, it can be a randomized controlled clinical trial, it can be chemical analysis, it can be a divining rod for all I care)

1) plain old water
2) water diluted (with an additive) to 30C without succession
3) water diluted (with an additive) to 30C with appropriate succession (I leave that up to you to determine what is appropriate)
4) water diluted (with an additive) to 30C with inappropriate succession



What purpose does it serves to distinguish water from water?
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#643  Postby Paul G » Jun 10, 2010 6:37 pm

Dr. Nancy Malik wrote:
gilthanass wrote:
Since you claim that it is the succession that confers magical properties on water (and not just the dilution, since that would mean water has a memory of everything on earth), design a way to distinguish between this group of test subjects (in any way you can think of, it can be a randomized controlled clinical trial, it can be chemical analysis, it can be a divining rod for all I care)

1) plain old water
2) water diluted (with an additive) to 30C without succession
3) water diluted (with an additive) to 30C with appropriate succession (I leave that up to you to determine what is appropriate)
4) water diluted (with an additive) to 30C with inappropriate succession



What purpose does it serves to distinguish water from water?


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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#644  Postby wunksta » Jun 10, 2010 6:38 pm

Dr. Nancy Malik wrote:False.I have not denied the germ theory of disease. I accept it partially only.


whats next? humors? :roll:
Last edited by wunksta on Jun 10, 2010 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#646  Postby Dr. Nancy Malik » Jun 10, 2010 6:39 pm

Darkchilde wrote: I do not care if a homeopath registers with whatever organization, but whether, if evidence is found that a homeopath has hurt a patient, his license as a homeopath can and will be taken away. If a homeopath will be held accountable, and his name will be de-registered.

It is not just the registration.


Yes.professional misconduct can result in de-licensing http://www.cchindia.com/code_of_ethics7.htm
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#647  Postby Dr. Nancy Malik » Jun 10, 2010 6:41 pm

Paul G wrote:Can you answer my question?


Your question on M.E. has been answered
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#648  Postby Paul G » Jun 10, 2010 6:42 pm

Dr. Nancy Malik wrote:
Paul G wrote:Are you familiar with M.E? I suffer from it and would be happy for you try and cure me. We could do it on the Rational Skepticism podcast.



Please.....


It's bad to know that you are suffering from myalgic encephalomyelitis. If you need to take the help of homeopathy medicine, it would be the best if you consult your local homeopath. But some idea in regard to chronic fatigue syndrome is http://www.homeoint.org/site/vaishnav/cfs.htm[/quote]


The understanding of M.E is pretty much spot on, which is why I'm so confused, it doesn't seem to be advocating any "diluted" treatments? Or does it?
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#649  Postby Dr. Nancy Malik » Jun 10, 2010 6:55 pm

Darkchilde wrote:
So, you have no way of checking whether a homeopathic whatever it is, is made according to specifications.

Since you ahve no idea how to check for succussions or for numerical potencies, then your medicine either does not work or is dangerous. Since we know, that people have "overdosed" on homeopathic stuff, in the 10:23 campaign, we know that your homeopathic stuff is just plain old water with nothing in it. Otherwise people would have been rushed to the hospital in that campaign.


As a practitioner of homeopathy medicine, I have no idea to check for no. of succusions. May be manufacturers knew it.

On one side you are saying homeopathy medicines are plain water. Then you are saying homeopathy medicines are dangerous. How both?
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#650  Postby Dr. Nancy Malik » Jun 10, 2010 7:00 pm

Paul wrote:
I would have thought that if homoeopaths 'understand' how it works in the human body, they should be able to somehow replicate it in the laboratory. Unless there is no difference of course.



Homeopathic medicines stimulate your body's homeostatic mechanism so your body heals itself by dealing with the sources of your symptoms. This stimulus assists your system in clearing itself of any expressions of imbalance. The homeopath physician gives you a medicine which matches your symptoms as you experience them, and which takes into account you as a person - your individual characteristics emotionally as well as physically.
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#651  Postby Dudely » Jun 10, 2010 7:01 pm

Dr. Nancy Malik wrote:
On one side you are saying homeopathy medicines are plain water. Then you are saying homeopathy medicines are dangerous. How both?

Because taking water instead of your medication can kill you- I.E. you're diabetic and you take some homeopathic remedies instead of insulin.
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#652  Postby Dudely » Jun 10, 2010 7:03 pm

Dr. Nancy Malik wrote:
Paul wrote:
I would have thought that if homoeopaths 'understand' how it works in the human body, they should be able to somehow replicate it in the laboratory. Unless there is no difference of course.



Homeopathic medicines stimulate your body's homeostatic mechanism so your body heals itself by dealing with the sources of your symptoms. This stimulus assists your system in clearing itself of any expressions of imbalance. The homeopath physician gives you a medicine which matches your symptoms as you experience them, and which takes into account you as a person - your individual characteristics emotionally as well as physically.


Would it be accurate then to say that you should be able to look at the body and see a stimulated homeostatic mechanism or that the body's response to disease/illness is greater after taking a homeopathic remedy? Would this be a good way of validating whether it is working or not?
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#653  Postby Dr. Nancy Malik » Jun 10, 2010 7:07 pm

Paul wrote:
Only 'largely' free from side-effects?

Any example of side-effects that have been experienced from homoeopathic drugs?


Overdosing on homeopathy medicine produces mild side effects provided the medicine is your similum, unlike side effects of conventional medicine which are grave and many times results in deaths of patients
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#654  Postby Dr. Nancy Malik » Jun 10, 2010 7:13 pm

Dudely wrote:
Dr. Nancy Malik wrote:
On one side you are saying homeopathy medicines are plain water. Then you are saying homeopathy medicines are dangerous. How both?

Because taking water instead of your medication can kill you- I.E. you're diabetic and you take some homeopathic remedies instead of insulin.


We have homeopathy medicine by the name of Insulinum.

Management of Diabeteis by homeopathy treatment

http://health.hpathy.com/diabetes-melli ... t-cure.asp
http://health.hpathy.com/diabetes1-symp ... t-cure.asp
http://www.byregion.net/articles-healer ... tives.html
http://www.nutralegacy.com/blog/general ... -diabetes/
http://innerhealth.us/blog4/homeopathy- ... -treatment
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#655  Postby stijndeloose » Jun 10, 2010 7:17 pm

Dr. Nancy Malik wrote:
Paul wrote:
Only 'largely' free from side-effects?

Any example of side-effects that have been experienced from homoeopathic drugs?


Overdosing on homeopathy medicine produces mild side effects provided the medicine is your similum, unlike side effects of conventional medicine which are grave and many times results in deaths of patients


You didn't answer Dr. Paul's question, Ms. Malik.

Also, the word 'similum' doesn't exist, as Dr. Mazille (IIRC) has pointed out before.
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#656  Postby Dr. Nancy Malik » Jun 10, 2010 7:18 pm

Dudely wrote:
Dr. Nancy Malik wrote:
Paul wrote:
I would have thought that if homoeopaths 'understand' how it works in the human body, they should be able to somehow replicate it in the laboratory. Unless there is no difference of course.



Homeopathic medicines stimulate your body's homeostatic mechanism so your body heals itself by dealing with the sources of your symptoms. This stimulus assists your system in clearing itself of any expressions of imbalance. The homeopath physician gives you a medicine which matches your symptoms as you experience them, and which takes into account you as a person - your individual characteristics emotionally as well as physically.


Would it be accurate then to say that you should be able to look at the body and see a stimulated homeostatic mechanism or that the body's response to disease/illness is greater after taking a homeopathic remedy? Would this be a good way of validating whether it is working or not?


Let me give you an example

Think of your body as your internal temperature gauge. If you go outside and it is very hot, your body will recognize it is too hot and begin to perspire. Your homeostatic mechanism is producing a symptom - perspiration - in an effort to cool down the body. If you go outside and it is very cold, the symptom is shivering. Your homeostatic mechanism is trying to warm the body up by shivering to produce heat.

Think about the last time you were shivering. You could not control it, and you did not stop until you were warm. It is the same way with homeopathic medicines. If you are ill and your body is showing symptoms, the symptoms will not disappear until the source of the symptoms has disappeared.
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#657  Postby GenesForLife » Jun 10, 2010 7:23 pm

Bullshit, shivering happens to generate heat, the body becomes warm due to shivering.
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#658  Postby stijndeloose » Jun 10, 2010 7:26 pm

Dr. Nancy Malik wrote:
Dudely wrote:Would it be accurate then to say that you should be able to look at the body and see a stimulated homeostatic mechanism or that the body's response to disease/illness is greater after taking a homeopathic remedy? Would this be a good way of validating whether it is working or not?


Let me give you an example

Think of your body as your internal temperature gauge. If you go outside and it is very hot, your body will recognize it is too hot and begin to perspire. Your homeostatic mechanism is producing a symptom - perspiration - in an effort to cool down the body. If you go outside and it is very cold, the symptom is shivering. Your homeostatic mechanism is trying to warm the body up by shivering to produce heat.

Think about the last time you were shivering. You could not control it, and you did not stop until you were warm. It is the same way with homeopathic medicines. If you are ill and your body is showing symptoms, the symptoms will not disappear until the source of the symptoms has disappeared.


Again, you didn't answer Dr. Dudely's question.
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#659  Postby Dr. Nancy Malik » Jun 10, 2010 7:28 pm

stijndeloose wrote:

Also, the word 'similum' doesn't exist, as Dr. Mazille (IIRC) has pointed out before.


It's simillimum
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#660  Postby stijndeloose » Jun 10, 2010 7:37 pm

Dr. Nancy Malik wrote:It's simillimum


Which you misspelled twice, and arguably isn't actually a word either, but hey... never mind.
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