The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Split

Homeopathy, Chiropractic and similar "alternative" views

Discussions on astrology, homeopathy and superstition etc.

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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#941  Postby stijndeloose » Jun 22, 2010 3:13 pm

DST70 wrote:
Paul wrote:Someone tells me "this 200 years old spark of intuition will work, but it defies physics, and I haven't a clue how it really works". What else is there other than faith?


You could try it for yourself? :shock:


I, for one, did. Did not work; cortisone did. There: anecdotal evidence that homeopathy is donkey dung.
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#942  Postby tytalus » Jun 22, 2010 8:00 pm

I see the thread exploded when Nancy came back to toss off some more link spam, but in defense of my own small effort:
Dr. Nancy Malik wrote:
tytalus wrote:
As for Edison's light bulb, it is curious to consider that apparently the light bulb had already been invented, and Edison's attempts (which vary in number depending on who you ask) were to develop a commercially viable product...

Thomas Edison used homeopathy and gave homeopathic remedies to his workers

Oops. I snipped the link spam. :) Fair play I suppose, since she deleted my Edison citation.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threa ... 47226.html

Oops. There it is again.

Interesting that it took Nancy this long to not address my point, which was yet another debunking of a bogus claim:

Nancy wrote:A negative result is not proof that something doesn't work. Eddison, reportedly had over 10,000 negative results before inventing the light bulb. By your logic after the first failure he had successfully proven that electricity could not be used to produce light. Clearly this was not the case.

Does it ever bother you to be this wrong, or do we have to dilute the fail in water and shake it up a bit?
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#943  Postby OHSU » Jun 22, 2010 8:20 pm

A negative result is not proof that something doesn't work.


Of course not. Positive results are proof that homeopathy works, and negative results aren't proof of anything.

We call this "confirmation bias".
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#944  Postby Dogmatic Pyrrhonist » Jun 23, 2010 6:03 am

Paul wrote:
DST70 wrote:
Paul wrote:Someone tells me "this 200 years old spark of intuition will work, but it defies physics, and I haven't a clue how it really works". What else is there other than faith?


You could try it for yourself? :shock:


And your point is?

Trying a homoeopathic remedy, in the absence of any reasoned, rational, scientific explanation, would be taking it on faith.
I could also try a faith healer, or asking people to pray for me. Just about as likely to have any effect on my health.


yes, and one person trying a "cure" is as likely to give good data as any other poor excuse for pissing money away. This is why we have those oft-mentioned clinical trials.
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#945  Postby stijndeloose » Jun 23, 2010 11:48 am

Nancy wrote:A negative result is not proof that something doesn't work. Eddison, reportedly had over 10,000 negative results before inventing the light bulb. By your logic after the first failure he had successfully proven that electricity could not be used to produce light. Clearly this was not the case.


Interesting. I didn't know Edison sold his non-working light-bulbs. :roll:
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#946  Postby GenesForLife » Jun 23, 2010 12:24 pm

Brilliant one, stijndeloose.
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#947  Postby Shrunk » Jun 23, 2010 1:26 pm

BTW, Nancy has a page on Google here where she peddles her dangerous lies. I've added a brief correction in the comments section, but others can feel free do the same if so inclined (As a bonus, if you go there you'll find out what my real name is!)
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#948  Postby Dudely » Jun 23, 2010 2:29 pm

stijndeloose wrote:
Nancy wrote:A negative result is not proof that something doesn't work. Eddison, reportedly had over 10,000 negative results before inventing the light bulb. By your logic after the first failure he had successfully proven that electricity could not be used to produce light. Clearly this was not the case.


Interesting. I didn't know Edison sold his non-working light-bulbs. :roll:


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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#949  Postby GenesForLife » Jun 23, 2010 2:36 pm

Mineral Kingdom ROFL.
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#950  Postby natselrox » Jun 23, 2010 4:18 pm

stijndeloose wrote:
Nancy wrote:A negative result is not proof that something doesn't work. Eddison, reportedly had over 10,000 negative results before inventing the light bulb. By your logic after the first failure he had successfully proven that electricity could not be used to produce light. Clearly this was not the case.


Interesting. I didn't know Edison sold his non-working light-bulbs. :roll:


I'm so drunk that I can'tn see the screen properly but that's funny! LOL
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#951  Postby Thommo » Jun 24, 2010 7:54 am

Just heard a few minutes of Simon Singh debunking some MP on BBC radio 4 Today program about homeopathy.

Love that guy! :thumbup:
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#952  Postby Shrunk » Jun 24, 2010 10:25 am

Thommo wrote:Just heard a few minutes of Simon Singh debunking some MP on BBC radio 4 Today program about homeopathy.

Love that guy! :thumbup:


With any luck, the homeopaths will try sue him, too.
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#953  Postby Thommo » Jun 24, 2010 10:28 am

Shrunk wrote:With any luck, the homeopaths will try sue him, too.


Again? Poor bloke has had enough of that! :lol:
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#954  Postby natselrox » Jun 24, 2010 10:28 am

Shrunk wrote:
Thommo wrote:Just heard a few minutes of Simon Singh debunking some MP on BBC radio 4 Today program about homeopathy.

Love that guy! :thumbup:


With any luck, the homeopaths will try sue him, too.


I don't think they'll do that. For an industry that relies mostly on blind-faith of a loyal customer-base, the open battlefield of court might just bring bad publicity. Those who operate in darkness do not like much sunlight.
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#955  Postby Shrunk » Jun 24, 2010 10:32 am

Thommo wrote:
Shrunk wrote:With any luck, the homeopaths will try sue him, too.


Again? Poor bloke has had enough of that! :lol:


Obviously, it was quite an ordeal for Singh and I wouldn't wish that upon him again. But the chiroquacks sure ended getting it up theirs when they tried to sue him.

Interestingly, Singh's co-author Edzard Ernst, whom we have encountered in this thread before, is a trained homeopath. Or should I say, former homeopath (since he actually started investigating the evidence behind homeopathy.)
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#956  Postby David M » Jun 24, 2010 2:12 pm

generalsemanticist wrote:
GenesForLife wrote:
Drugs such as antibiotics, antiretroviral drugs and several anticancer drugs deal not with symptoms, but the cause of the disease, so that eejit who made the quote has no clue about what she is commenting on.

What about research into why people get cancer and preventing it? What IS the real cause of cancer? Are you saying that the cause of cancer is cancer cells??


In some case its pathogens (which is why the HPV vaccine is effective), in some cases its genetic, in some cases is environmental. Cancer is not a disease its a group of diseases that share characteristics.
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#957  Postby David M » Jun 24, 2010 3:04 pm

Dr. Nancy Malik wrote:
GenesForLife wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2010/feb/22/mps-verdict-homeopathy-useless-unethical

:D


Only 1 member of the Science and Technology Select Committee survived UK elections. All other conventional drug pusher lost

British MP, Evan Harris, the crazed anti-homeopathic politician lost to a 26-year old newbie to politics


Even if we were to accept the, frankly laughable, contention that their views on the efdicacy of homeopathy over evidence based reality played any part in losing their seat the above statement is a lie.

Of the 14 members 6 were re-elected:

Dr Roberta Blackman-Woods, Mr Tim Boswell, Mrs Nadine Dorries, Mr Gordon Marsden, Graham Stringer, Mr Rob Wilson

4 Did not stand in the election.
Dr Brian Iddon, Dr Doug Naysmith, Dr Desmond Turner, Ian Stewart

And of the 8 members no longer on the commitee 5 were Labour MP's, the party that lost the most support and suffered the greatest loss of MPs.

Thommo wrote:And this is evidence for a big conspiracy? That these people lost their seats in an election where hundreds of MPs left parliament and hundreds of new ones were appointed? :scratch:

That doesn't make any sense at all.

Evan Harris wasn't "crazed" he was highly respected and intelligent and is a qualified medical doctor. Frankly it's amazing he held that seat as long as possible in the Tory heartlands of England.


No, because its not true. Thats why it makes no sense.
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#958  Postby Paul » Jun 24, 2010 3:42 pm

A quick google shows that even that nasty, snide little "crazed" comment about Evan Harris probably isn't Nancy's own original work!

It looks like she cribbed it from a tweet by some loon called HomeopathicDana, here
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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#959  Postby natselrox » Jun 24, 2010 3:49 pm

Paul wrote:A quick google shows that even that nasty, snide little "crazed" comment about Evan Harris probably isn't Nancy's own original work!

It looks like she cribbed it from a tweet by some loon called HomeopathicDana, here



It's all falling apart, all falling apart... :whistle:
When in perplexity, read on.

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Re: The Danger of Science Denial - "Alternative Medicine"-Sp

#960  Postby David M » Jun 25, 2010 11:32 am

natselrox wrote:It's all falling apart, all falling apart... :whistle:


Yeah, its pretty sad that whenever a creationist or wooist makes a statement of fact you know it should really be checked for accuracy. Much in the same way you know that any link to a scientific paper means you should read it to see if the conclusions are indeed what has been claimed or that every quote should be checked for context.

How strong an argument can people have if they have to make stuff up to support it?

Dr Malik, how does it make you feel that other supporters of homeopathy have to fabricate such blatant lies in support of homeopathy?
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