Are Video Games Putting You in a Skinner Box?

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Are Video Games Putting You in a Skinner Box?

 
 

Are Video Games Putting You in a Skinner Box?

#1  Postby Mayak » Mar 25, 2010 2:26 am

So, the headlines say somebody else has died due to video game addiction. Yes, it's Korea again.

What the hell? Look, I'm not saying video games are heroin. I totally get that the victims had other shit going on in their lives. But, half of you reading this know a World of Warcraft addict and experts say video game addiction is a thing. So here's the big question: Are some games intentionally designed to keep you compulsively playing, even when you're not enjoying it?

Oh, hell yes. And their methods are downright creepy.
#5.
Putting You in a Skinner Box

If you've ever been addicted to a game or known someone who was, this article is really freaking disturbing. It's written by a games researcher at Microsoft on how to make video games that hook players, whether they like it or not. He has a doctorate in behavioral and brain sciences. Quote:

"Each contingency is an arrangement of time, activity, and reward, and there are an infinite number of ways these elements can be combined to produce the pattern of activity you want from your players."

Notice his article does not contain the words "fun" or "enjoyment." That's not his field. Instead it's "the pattern of activity you want."


"...at this point, younger gamers will raise their arms above their head, leaving them vulnerable."

His theories are based around the work of BF Skinner, who discovered you could control behavior by training subjects with simple stimulus and reward. He invented the "Skinner Box," a cage containing a small animal that, for instance, presses a lever to get food pellets. Now, I'm not saying this guy at Microsoft sees gamers as a bunch of rats in a Skinner box. I'm just saying that he illustrates his theory of game design using pictures of rats in a Skinner box.

This sort of thing caused games researcher Nick Yee to once call Everquest a "Virtual Skinner Box."

So What's The Problem?

Gaming has changed. It used to be that once they sold us a $50 game, they didn't particularly care how long we played. The big thing was making sure we liked it enough to buy the next one. But the industry is moving toward subscription-based games like MMO's that need the subject to keep playing--and paying--until the sun goes supernova.

Now, there's no way they can create enough exploration or story to keep you playing for thousands of hours, so they had to change the mechanics of the game, so players would instead keep doing the same actions over and over and over, whether they liked it or not. So game developers turned to Skinner's techniques.

This is a big source of controversy in the world of game design right now. Braid creator Jonathan Blow said Skinnerian game mechanics are a form of "exploitation." It's not that these games can't be fun. But they're designed to keep gamers subscribing during the periods when it's not fun, locking them into a repetitive slog using Skinner's manipulative system of carefully scheduled rewards.

Why would this work, when the "rewards" are just digital objects that don't actually exist? Well...


Original Article:
http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html

This video is kind of related:
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Re: Are Video Games Putting You in a Skinner Box?

#2  Postby Rawnaeris » Mar 25, 2010 3:38 am

This almost makes me ashamed to play WoW. In my defense, when school got heavy, I would quit playing. And I periodically allow my subscription to run out. Which it is right now. Because I do get tired of grinding. I play more when I have people, often RL friends playing also, and less when there is no human interaction. Which happens to be right now, I have no friends playing, and I quit my 'guild' because they weren't willing to respect a part-time player. So no WoW for me right now.

It's kind of bastardly of them to set up the games to be addictive like that.


Edited for clarity.
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Re: Are Video Games Putting You in a Skinner Box?

#3  Postby Mr.Samsa » Mar 25, 2010 4:08 am

Fundamental misunderstanding of the science being implemented combined with scare tactics being used in the article.

If you've ever been addicted to a game or known someone who was, this article is really freaking disturbing. It's written by a games researcher at Microsoft on how to make video games that hook players, whether they like it or not. He has a doctorate in behavioral and brain sciences. Quote:

"Each contingency is an arrangement of time, activity, and reward, and there are an infinite number of ways these elements can be combined to produce the pattern of activity you want from your players."

Notice his article does not contain the words "fun" or "enjoyment." That's not his field. Instead it's "the pattern of activity you want."


In other words, basically they've set up games to maximise your enjoyment and since people tend to obsessively engage in activities they enjoy, you get continued use of the game. The term "enjoyment" is left out of the article because it's a colloquial term that isn't used in science because it's unnecessary. You can use these tools to basically get people "addicted" to games, but the addiction and the effectiveness of the tools lie in creating a game that is most enjoyable to the user.

His theories are based around the work of BF Skinner, who discovered you could control behavior by training subjects with simple stimulus and reward. He invented the "Skinner Box," a cage containing a small animal that, for instance, presses a lever to get food pellets. Now, I'm not saying this guy at Microsoft sees gamers as a bunch of rats in a Skinner box. I'm just saying that he illustrates his theory of game design using pictures of rats in a Skinner box.


Not quite, that's like saying Darwin discovered that you could control populations by killing off animals with particular traits. Whilst arguably true, what Skinner actually did was to highlight the environmental contingencies that control ALL of our behaviors. The fact that game developers are using science to try to maximise consumer use should be a good thing, because the way you maximise a behavior is to increase the reinforcement contingencies - i.e. you make it really fun for people.

So it's not like these people are utilising some ancient Jedi mind tricks that make you do things you don't want to do; all they are doing is observing the natural laws of human behavior, and implementing them into their games. To call this exploitation for using "Skinnerian principles", is like calling language training exploitation, or lying, or compliments, or dating, or "I love you"s, or essentially any social interaction etc etc.

Bottom line: ridiculous misrepresentation of what the paper actually says and the implications of what the game designers are doing.
"The real question is not whether machines think but whether men do. The mystery which surrounds a thinking machine already surrounds a thinking man." - B.F.Skinner.

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Re: Are Video Games Putting You in a Skinner Box?

#4  Postby Mayak » Mar 26, 2010 3:40 am

Samsa you are one sexy mofo :devil:

Always a pleasure to have your rational opinion! :smoke:
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Re: Are Video Games Putting You in a Skinner Box?

#5  Postby Mr.Samsa » Mar 26, 2010 3:47 am

Mayak wrote:Samsa you are one sexy mofo :devil:

Always a pleasure to have your rational opinion! :smoke:


:lol:

It's not often I'm described as such, but thanks? And thanks for posting the article, it was interesting but I just happened to disagree with it's central premise :cheers:
"The real question is not whether machines think but whether men do. The mystery which surrounds a thinking machine already surrounds a thinking man." - B.F.Skinner.

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Re: Are Video Games Putting You in a Skinner Box?

#6  Postby jaydot » Mar 27, 2010 10:59 pm

more 'ain't it awful'. boring.
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Re: Are Video Games Putting You in a Skinner Box?

#7  Postby UtilityMonster » Mar 27, 2010 11:06 pm

I used to play World of Warcraft. I really do think it is a poisonous addiction, and am so happy I am done with it. I now play the occasional xbox game (mass effect most recently), and chess for all my gaming needs. Chess helps develop one's logic and reasoning, so I see playing it as a good thing, especially because it isn't addicting, but oftentimes tedious even! I have a friend who I introduced to World of Warcraft who still plays it religiously. The way I stopped was playing Warcraft 3, which is similarly entertaining but not at all addicting. I view it as the whole use Meth to get off Heroin deal.
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Re: Are Video Games Putting You in a Skinner Box?

 
 

Re: Are Video Games Putting You in a Skinner Box?

#8  Postby Jim McFarland » Jan 24, 2012 9:21 pm

One other point is worth mentioning that can help clarify this:

Case in Point-

Online gaming addiction is a very real debilitating condition; Even though it's been rejected for DSM V, I have one personal example in which the "enjoyment" of online gaming came at the expense of all and everything else.

A close friend named "Lee" : good guy, really intelligent. He'd stay up 3-4 days straight playing WOW.

He wouldn't bathe, skipped work, wouldn't answer the phone, and would basically lock himself into his home, close the curtains and ate Little Debbies and chips. Lost his job. Lost friends.

Sounds like a rat enjoying hitting the bar to me.

The game didn't cause it; but certainly WOW's purposefully addictive design and built-in very powerful variable schedules of reinforcement were powerful conditioning factors in my friend's addiction; latch that together with the altered states of consciousness online games produce, and the game got it's tentacles really entrenched in my friend's brain.

Good kid; lost alot.

Go over to http://www.olganon.org/ and take a peak at their forum. If it ain't really happening, What is that?

18424 posts at last count in just one section of their forum...

Yes Game Designers design addictive games purposefully; Yes they do it for money; Yes people suffer because of it.

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