Beware that Cute Little Pussy

Schizophrenia linked to Cats

Studies of mental functions, behaviors and the nervous system.

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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#61  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 01, 2015 1:07 pm

Sadegh wrote:What am I missing here?


Someone interested in discussing this irrelevancy?
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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#62  Postby Sadegh » Aug 01, 2015 1:28 pm

To be clear, are you telling me that Extroversion/Introversion isn't actually a personality trait?
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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#63  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 01, 2015 1:42 pm

DoctorE wrote:Obli...


Très intéressant! Thanks for posting it! :)
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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#64  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 01, 2015 1:44 pm

Sadegh wrote:To be clear, are you telling me that Extroversion/Introversion isn't actually a personality trait?



No, Sadegh. I have at no point in my life, let alone in this thread, suggested otherwise.

I think I've already made this clear 2 or 3 times.

All of this conversation you've been having has been with someone else.
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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#65  Postby Sadegh » Aug 01, 2015 2:07 pm

OK, right, never mind, that was pretty thick on my account. It's not that but there's still a problem:

Spearthrower wrote:I'm skeptical too, but I think it's more verifiable/falsifiable than notions of cat owners being introverted, and this being the link to schizophrenia.


Even if the former part is contested, though I really don't think it's an issue, the second part ... wtf? Why would the prodrome be so frequently marked by social withdrawal?
Last edited by Sadegh on Aug 01, 2015 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#66  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 01, 2015 2:18 pm

Sadegh wrote:OK, right, never mind. It's not that but there's still a problem:

Spearthrower wrote:I'm skeptical too, but I think it's more verifiable/falsifiable than notions of cat owners being introverted, and this being the link to schizophrenia.


Even if the former part is contested, though I really don't think it's an issue, the second part ... wtf? Why would the prodrome be so frequently marked by social withdrawal?



1) I am skeptical of the claim that cat owners are introverted.
2) I am skeptical of the claim that cat owners' purported introversion is the link to schizophrenia.


I can't make this any clearer for you. You might want to discuss something else, and you might want me to hold a position on that, but I am not willingly taking the position you're arguing against - the entire conversation has been one-sided and a product of your imagination.
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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#67  Postby Sadegh » Aug 01, 2015 2:25 pm

Spearthrower wrote:2) I am skeptical of the claim that cat owners' purported introversion is the link to schizophrenia.


Let's focus on this for a moment. Do you think that introversion is not generally a link to schizophrenia, or simply in the case of cat owners?
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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#68  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 01, 2015 2:29 pm

Sadegh wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:2) I am skeptical of the claim that cat owners' purported introversion is the link to schizophrenia.


Let's focus on this for a moment. Do you think that introversion is not generally a link to schizophrenia, or simply in the case of cat owners?



:doh:
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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#69  Postby Sadegh » Aug 01, 2015 3:03 pm

I mean I don't think that the case for differences in cat owners in Extroversion and the other personality traits is actually all that lacking. But never mind that ... let's just assume for the sake of argument, and only for the sake of argument, that cat owners are in fact more introverted. Wouldn't it make sense to expect higher schizophrenia rates among them accordingly?
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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#70  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 01, 2015 3:07 pm

Why don't you ask yourself, Sadegh? Then you can reply to yourself, and then question yourself, and then respond to yourself and then... oh wait, that's what you're already doing.

My advice: get a blog.
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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#71  Postby Sadegh » Aug 01, 2015 3:09 pm

Like I don't know how familiar you are with basic research or clinical psychology or anything. You aren't making yourself quite clear.
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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#72  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 01, 2015 3:09 pm

I am more than adequately clear. You've repeatedly tried to misrepresent me in a manner that is clearly not even attempting to address what I've written - that's the only thing generating obfuscation here. And it's not like I'm the only person to have noted it:

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/news- ... l#p2273525

purplerat wrote:Your struggle is that you are reading into what people say based on what would be most convienent for you had they meant it the way you think they did rather than looking for real implications or nuance in their statements.
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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#73  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 01, 2015 3:14 pm

Let's go the object lesson route:

Sadegh wrote:Since cat ownership is connected to introversion—cats presumably being more suitable for the introvert, though I have only ever preferred dogs—and schizophrenia is a pathological extreme of introversion, this may not be very surprising.

Don't know if pathogens have anything to do with it. They might but I have no idea.



So are you saying that toxoplasmosis is not transmissible by cats?
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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#74  Postby Sadegh » Aug 01, 2015 3:24 pm

Of course not. Anyway, I think the problem here is just that we're not on the same page.
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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#75  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 01, 2015 3:36 pm

Sadegh wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:Let's go the object lesson route:

Sadegh wrote:Since cat ownership is connected to introversion—cats presumably being more suitable for the introvert, though I have only ever preferred dogs—and schizophrenia is a pathological extreme of introversion, this may not be very surprising.

Don't know if pathogens have anything to do with it. They might but I have no idea.



So are you saying that toxoplasmosis is not transmissible by cats?Of course not. Anyway, I think the problem here is just that we're not on the same page.



Wtf.... cats have long been well established as a vector for toxoplasmosis:

http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/toxoplasmosis/biology.html

The only known definitive hosts for Toxoplasma gondii are members of family Felidae (domestic cats and their relatives).Unsporulated oocysts are shed in the cat’s feces. Although oocysts are usually only shed for 1-2 weeks, large numbers may be shed. Oocysts take 1-5 days to sporulate in the environment and become infective. Intermediate hosts in nature (including birds and rodents) become infected after ingesting soil, water or plant material contaminated with oocysts. Oocysts transform into tachyzoites shortly after ingestion. These tachyzoites localize in neural and muscle tissue and develop into tissue cyst bradyzoites. Cats become infected after consuming intermediate hosts harboring tissue cysts. Cats may also become infected directly by ingestion of sporulated oocysts. Animals bred for human consumption and wild game may also become infected with tissue cysts after ingestion of sporulated oocysts in the environment. Humans can become infected by any of several routes:

....

consuming food or water contaminated with cat feces or by contaminated environmental samples (such as fecal-contaminated soil or changing the litter box of a pet cat)


Or maybe you just reject that parasites can cause intraspecific diseases. Parasitic transmission of infectious diseases is well understood and not remotely controversial within the medical science literature. The manner in which toxoplasmosis is transmitted to humans via cats is well known and understood - see above.
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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#76  Postby Sadegh » Aug 01, 2015 3:41 pm

See, we're both talking past each other:

Sadegh wrote:To be clear:

  • Schizophrenia is not caused by any one single thing so there is perhaps room for Toxoplasmosis among the various other causes that result in the single great effect.
  • I don't think that cat ownership, except perhaps for the Toxoplasmosis link, causes schizophrenia. I suspect that introversion contributes to both cat ownership and schizophrenia and they simply tend to co-occur.


Toxoplasmosis is clearly on the list of potential causes for me, as are certain alleles, growing up in an urban environment, psychological traumata, perinatal issues, excessive drug use ... really there's a highly inclusive smörgåsbord of different kinds of shittiness that potentially leads into the life of shittiness that is schizophrenia. You're welcome to nibble here and there as you please.
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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#77  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 01, 2015 3:42 pm

Sadegh wrote:See, we're both talking past each other:

Sadegh wrote:To be clear:

  • Schizophrenia is not caused by any one single thing so there is perhaps room for Toxoplasmosis among the various other causes that result in the single great effect.
  • I don't think that cat ownership, except perhaps for the Toxoplasmosis link, causes schizophrenia. I suspect that introversion contributes to both cat ownership and schizophrenia and they simply tend to co-occur.


Toxoplasmosis is clearly on the list of potential causes for me, as are certain alleles, growing up in an urban environment, psychological traumata, perinatal issues, excessive drug use ... really there's a highly inclusive smörgåsbord of different kinds of shittiness that potentially leads into the life of shittiness that is schizophrenia. You're welcome to nibble here and there as you please.



So are you saying that toxoplasmosis is not transmissible by cats?

Goodness, we've known about this for over a century!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/395585

A chronologic description of the principal events and discoveries related to toxoplasmosis from 1908 when the causal agent was discovered up to date is performed.
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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#78  Postby Sadegh » Aug 01, 2015 3:44 pm

I think I'm getting trolled here.
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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#79  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 01, 2015 3:44 pm

Sadegh wrote:See, we're both talking past each other:


:lol:

it's funny how you only comprehend this when I show you via OBJECT LESSON!

Spearthrower wrote:Let's go the object lesson route:

Sadegh wrote:Since cat ownership is connected to introversion—cats presumably being more suitable for the introvert, though I have only ever preferred dogs—and schizophrenia is a pathological extreme of introversion, this may not be very surprising.

Don't know if pathogens have anything to do with it. They might but I have no idea.



So are you saying that toxoplasmosis is not transmissible by cats?



You keep talking past people, Sadegh.

You can't really claim to not know you're doing it considering I spelled it out to you half a dozen times in this thread.
Last edited by Spearthrower on Aug 01, 2015 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Beware that Cute Little Pussy

#80  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 01, 2015 3:44 pm

Sadegh wrote:I think I'm getting trolled here.



I'm glad you now appreciate how it feels and perhaps you will adjust your posting behavior accordingly.
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