can the brain see at night with cats eye implant

cavarka9 · #1 by **cavarka9** » Dec 11, 2011 12:41 am

can we train the brain see at night with cats eye implant or bionic eye for adults.

Berthold · #2 by **Berthold** » Dec 11, 2011 8:17 pm

Well, the brain needs signals from the sense organ. If they are provided because the organ is sufficiently sensitive, it would make something of them. Would probably look a bit funny, however: Not much colour vision (most mammals are rather bad at that), although the light would be seen as bright.

JoeB · #3 by **JoeB** » Dec 11, 2011 10:29 pm

If the signal is similar in composition to our own eyes except much more sensitive in the dark, then sure, why not?

Ironclad · #4 by **Ironclad** » Dec 12, 2011 1:03 am

What cat has eyes that'd fit in my orbits? That's the logical next question. Followed by, and where does it live...?

Bribase · #5 by **Bribase** » Dec 12, 2011 1:10 am

cavarka9 wrote:can we train the brain see at night with cats eye implant or bionic eye for adults.

All you need is to transplant their tapetum lucidum or a similar artificial implant. The trade off being that reflecting light back into the retina multiple times means that our eyesight in normal conditions would be awful, very blurry.

PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn · #6 by **PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn** » Dec 12, 2011 1:15 am

chip in the eye > 1.30 in

however, what I think your thinking of is the Tapetum lucidum which I suppose theoretically could be added to the eye, giving increased night vision by increasing the light captured. however dont think it'd do day vision (and therefore colour) any good, I assume there sould be some ghosting like effect as a result of receiving the light by reflection, and possibly losing the sharpness because it isn't focused by the lens

but this is all pretty much conjecture

cavarka9 · #7 by **cavarka9** » Dec 12, 2011 8:33 am

but cats can see pretty well at day time too, right?

Gallstones · #8 by **Gallstones** » Dec 12, 2011 8:51 am

Joe09 · #9 by **Joe09** » Feb 18, 2012 1:50 am

i really hate programs/clips like those

its always 90% filler and 10% actual useful information

bores me to tears

orpheus · **#10** by **orpheus** » Feb 18, 2012 2:10 am

I've heard that cats see in grayscale, not color. But that they can see somewhat into the infrared (helping them to find the warmest spot for a nap).

Anyone here who knows about these things? I'd love to find out if these things are true.

Just by observing my own cats, it seems they're very good at noticing minute movements at a distance. Makes sense, since they're hunters. I wonder how much that has to do with the sensitivity of their eyes and how much to do with the wiring of their brains. In the first case we might pick up some of that ability in an implant. In the second case obviously we wouldn't.

DavidMcC · **#11** by **DavidMcC** » Mar 19, 2012 2:54 pm

orpheus wrote:I've heard that cats see in grayscale, not color.

Not exactly correct, orpheus. Cats are bichromats, that is to say they have two types of cone cells in their retina (we primates have three) and their visual range is from yellow to blue, but not much red, and, AFAIK, no infra-red, either. (AFAIK, only snakes, with their specialised pit "eyes" can see IR). Of course, at night, we are all monochromats, relying on our rod cells for vision, and that is where cats score, because they have a tapetum lucidum behind the photoreceptors, which reflects unabsorbed light back to the photorecoptors for a second pass. This makes them more sensitive to light, but at the price that the reflections tend to cause glare and artifacts, which are suppressed in our eyes, as we have the black poigment epithelium directly behind the photorecptors.

DavidMcC · **#12** by **DavidMcC** » Mar 19, 2012 3:00 pm

...Here's quite a good short article on cat vision:
http://www.manhattancats.com/Articles/eyes.html

DavidMcC · **#13** by **DavidMcC** » Mar 19, 2012 3:31 pm

Also, it's the eye-brain system that sees, not the brain or the eyes alone.

DougC · **#14** by **DougC** » Mar 19, 2012 5:39 pm

cavarka9 wrote:can we train the brain see at night with cats eye implant or bionic eye for adults.

Good. Its no just me that lies awake at night pondering this stuff.

CdesignProponentsist · **#15** by **CdesignProponentsist** » Mar 19, 2012 5:46 pm

JoeB wrote:If the signal is similar in composition to our own eyes except much more sensitive in the dark, then sure, why not?

Actually, with brain plasticity, the brain can learn to interpret foreign signals. This has been shown with light sensing implants using a basic grid pattern of electrodes (most definitely not how the brain normally sees) as well as image flipping experiments where the subject even had to relearn how to see normally after the conclusion of the experiment.

The number of channels may pose a problem however, if it is much higher than normal as the brain is designed to handle a specific amount of visual processing.

So super human eyes would probably also require brain augmentation as well.

mraltair · **#16** by **mraltair** » Mar 19, 2012 6:06 pm

CdesignProponentsist wrote:
JoeB wrote:If the signal is similar in composition to our own eyes except much more sensitive in the dark, then sure, why not?

Actually, with brain plasticity, the brain can learn to interpret foreign signals. This has been shown with light sensing implants using a basic grid pattern of electrodes (most definitely not how the brain normally sees) as well as image flipping experiments where the subject even had to relearn how to see normally after the conclusion of the experiment.

The number of channels may pose a problem however, if it is much higher than normal as the brain is designed to handle a specific amount of visual processing.

So super human eyes would probably also require brain augmentation as well.

I was watching a youtube video on AI in which the speaker mentioned that 'they' have hooked up the eyes with the auditory part of the brain which then started to learn to see from these signals. He also mention the same can be done between touch and sight as well.

Maybe we could one day have raccoon hands and eagle eyes. We would rule the world! Well, more than we already do.

DavidMcC · **#17** by **DavidMcC** » Mar 20, 2012 10:04 am

CdesignProponentsist wrote:So super human eyes would probably also require brain augmentation as well.

Yes, OR some loss of function in a sense using an adjacent cortex, such as the auditory.

PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn · **#18** by **PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn** » Mar 20, 2012 1:38 pm

theres a few interesting videos on brain/eye signals and sight.

so ignore the fact this is based on a game,

and on converting prosthetic retinal signals

[edit] bugger. already posted first video. didnt show up when I looked on the phone.

MonykaTyche · **#19** by **MonykaTyche** » Apr 01, 2012 2:24 am

I think the best bet would be genetic engineering. It would be much simpler to introduce the genes in question from the cat into the human DNA strand where the relevant genes are found. At that, there may even be a better candidate other than the cat for night vision.

More interestingly, IMO is the 4th cone some female gorillas have. It would seem their colour vision is even more sensitive than ours! I'd like a functional gene implant!

PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn · **#20** by **PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn** » Apr 01, 2012 8:52 pm

MonykaTyche wrote:I think the best bet would be genetic engineering. It would be much simpler to introduce the genes in question from the cat into the human DNA strand where the relevant genes are found. At that, there may even be a better candidate other than the cat for night vision.

More interestingly, IMO is the 4th cone some female gorillas have. It would seem their colour vision is even more sensitive than ours! I'd like a functional gene implant!

if your manipulating genes. surely you'd be better off trying to fix the retina in the first place. ie. the "inverted" retina that organisms like the squid have.

that said Id rather prosthetic eyes that would allow visibility in other specta.