Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

Revived patients claim to have seen the light

Studies of mental functions, behaviors and the nervous system.

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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#21  Postby LucidFlight » Dec 26, 2017 4:38 pm

Wortfish wrote:
LucidFlight wrote:The thing I don't get is why we even need a brain in the first place.

The brain is the seat of the nervous system, but not necessarily the seat of consciousness.

The thing I find amazing is how the consciousness knows how to receive the information from the nervous system. Is that something that is learned when the brain first comes into existence, or is it an innate understanding of the mind that it should somehow tap into the physical being of a person in order to experience their reality? Amazing stuff, nonetheless.
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#22  Postby The_Metatron » Dec 26, 2017 4:53 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
LucidFlight wrote:The thing I don't get is why we even need a brain in the first place.

Are you serious?? :lol:

Dude. The reason our forum exists at all is the propensity for large swathes of humanity to ignore theirs, as if they don’t have one.

It’s clearly possible to reach a point without one where a person can get on the internet and pester others with their shite.


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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#23  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 26, 2017 5:16 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:Failure to rigourously define 'mind' has been noted.


That's my description. The researchers just refer to "awareness".

I was referring to the study. What is awareness? Awareness in what sense and of what?


Being conscious of what is going on around oneself.

Still a vague definition. Being aware how? Visual? Sound? Touch? Memory?

2% of the patients could see the doctors operating on their bodies even though their brains were inactive. They described in detail what was going on at the time.

An incredibly low number and unless they had really unique surgery, not that noteworthy.

About 10% recalled being met by resplendent angels and dead relatives and saw a radiant light. Many of these people had no religious convictions.

Indistinguishable from UFO abduction stories.

In the past, these actual/near death experiences were treated as hallucinations by a dying brain. But we can now observe that brain states are inactive and no electrical activity takes place between the neurons during this state.

Meaning there's evidence that what ever they experienced did not occur during that period.
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#24  Postby NineBerry » Dec 26, 2017 5:44 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Being conscious of what is going on around oneself. 2% of the patients could see the doctors operating on their bodies even though their brains were inactive. They described in detail what was going on at the time. About 10% recalled being met by resplendent angels and dead relatives and saw a radiant light. Many of these people had no religious convictions.


One would think that God Inc was better organized than to take people into paradise who are then restored to live a few minutes later by human doctors. Isn't God supposed to be all knowing?
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#25  Postby NineBerry » Dec 26, 2017 5:57 pm

Imagine your are in paradise, getting a message by an angel that your husband has now also died. You and the angel hurry to get to the place where he died and then just after saying hello to him, it makes puff and he is gone again, the angel saying sorry, we couldn't know human doctors would be able to save him. You'll have to wait some longer...
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#26  Postby SafeAsMilk » Dec 26, 2017 6:05 pm

Animavore wrote:Where is this comprehensive evidence?

Don't you know? Questionnaires count as comprehensive evidence and research these days.
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#27  Postby Shrunk » Dec 26, 2017 7:00 pm

Observation: People who aren't dead retain awareness.

Conclusion: People who are dead retain awareness.

Can you see the flaw in your logic, Wortfish? I can, but let's see if you can figure it out by yourself...
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#28  Postby Rumraket » Dec 26, 2017 7:12 pm

:rofl:
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#29  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 26, 2017 7:18 pm

Shrunk wrote:Observation: People who aren't dead retain awareness.

Conclusion: People who are dead retain awareness.

Can you see the flaw in your logic, Wortfish? I can, but let's see if you can figure it out by yourself...

That would require some mind/awareness/consciousness /whatever.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#30  Postby Thommo » Dec 26, 2017 7:34 pm

Dr. Parnia's research shows that the brain shuts down when the heart stops. But it doesn't decompose immediately. That allows people to be brought back from a state of clinical death. But. as the brain is inactive during this period, there should be no awareness....but there is.


Exciting as this would be, sadly, it's not the case.
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#31  Postby Macdoc » Dec 26, 2017 8:54 pm

But. as the brain is inactive during this period,


The brain is not inactive....consciousness may or may not be active in some form ....and may well be recording sensory input ....it's a gradient ...not on and off.

all your "heavenly host" shite is just wishful thinking....
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#32  Postby The_Metatron » Dec 26, 2017 8:58 pm

felltoearth wrote:Interesting choice of words–Mind.

I totally missed this, sorry.

So, wortfish, let's have it. You're really here stumping for the existence of a soul aren't you? Some incorporeal essence of us that is somehow immortal.

You're going to have to do much better than not dead people claiming to be dead people and remembering a bit of the experience. I want to see an isolated soul. Catch one. Let's communicate with it. Shouldn't be a big trick to set up a test to demonstrate if the one you caught is actually a soul of who you claim it to be. If I had my own forum such as this, I would have one rule about this. Demonstrate the existence of souls or shut up and leave (or be shown the exit if they can't do either).

All the rest of this supernatural rubbish is predicated on the concept of a soul. Without that, there's no need at all for the rest.
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#33  Postby theropod » Dec 26, 2017 11:23 pm

Wortfish wrote:
LucidFlight wrote:The thing I don't get is why we even need a brain in the first place.

The brain is the seat of the nervous system, but not necessarily the seat of consciousness.



:clap:

I am convinced. Not of your assertion, but of my suspicions. I called it yesterday.

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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#34  Postby laklak » Dec 27, 2017 12:01 am

Where's the comprehensive evidence? What do you mean by "mind"? Define "death".

So far I'm seeing nothing but blind assertion and wishful thinking.
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#35  Postby pelfdaddy » Dec 27, 2017 5:49 am

I fully expect to find Heaven to be a paperwork fiasco just like everything else, and to be sent back because I don't have two forms of ID and so forth.
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#36  Postby The_Metatron » Dec 27, 2017 7:36 am

I have it on authority that it’s Christmas in heaven.
[Reveal] Spoiler:



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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#37  Postby The_Piper » Dec 27, 2017 10:09 am

The seat of my consciousness was on the toilet earlier. Literally that is.
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#38  Postby laklak » Dec 27, 2017 2:17 pm

Did you shit your brains out?
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#39  Postby Wortfish » Dec 27, 2017 7:50 pm

Shrunk wrote:Observation: People who aren't dead retain awareness.

Conclusion: People who are dead retain awareness.

Can you see the flaw in your logic, Wortfish? I can, but let's see if you can figure it out by yourself...


They were dead, but their brains hadn't started decomposing.
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#40  Postby Wortfish » Dec 27, 2017 7:52 pm

theropod wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
LucidFlight wrote:The thing I don't get is why we even need a brain in the first place.

The brain is the seat of the nervous system, but not necessarily the seat of consciousness.



:clap:

I am convinced. Not of your assertion, but of my suspicions. I called it yesterday.

RS

It is an age-old question. This study provides support to those who claim the mind is not merely the output of the brain.
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