Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

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Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#1  Postby Wortfish » Dec 26, 2017 12:49 am



AWARE—AWAreness during REsuscitation—A prospective study:
http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/art ... 4/fulltext

Cardiac arrest (CA) survivors experience cognitive deficits including post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). It is unclear whether these are related to cognitive/mental experiences and awareness during CPR. Despite anecdotal reports the broad range of cognitive/mental experiences and awareness associated with CPR has not been systematically studied.
Methods
The incidence and validity of awareness together with the range, characteristics and themes relating to memories/cognitive processes during CA was investigated through a 4 year multi-center observational study using a three stage quantitative and qualitative interview system. The feasibility of objectively testing the accuracy of claims of visual and auditory awareness was examined using specific tests. The outcome measures were (1) awareness/memories during CA and (2) objective verification of claims of awareness using specific tests.
Results
Among 2060 CA events, 140 survivors completed stage 1 interviews, while 101 of 140 patients completed stage 2 interviews. 46% had memories with 7 major cognitive themes: fear; animals/plants; bright light; violence/persecution; deja-vu; family; recalling events post-CA and 9% had NDEs, while 2% described awareness with explicit recall of ‘seeing’ and ‘hearing’ actual events related to their resuscitation. One had a verifiable period of conscious awareness during which time cerebral function was not expected.
Conclusions
CA survivors commonly experience a broad range of cognitive themes, with 2% exhibiting full awareness. This supports other recent studies that have indicated consciousness may be present despite clinically undetectable consciousness. This together with fearful experiences may contribute to PTSD and other cognitive deficits post CA.
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#2  Postby felltoearth » Dec 26, 2017 1:14 am

Interesting choice of words–Mind.
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#3  Postby Animavore » Dec 26, 2017 1:16 am

Where is this comprehensive evidence?
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#5  Postby Macdoc » Dec 26, 2017 2:36 am

Image

what next, tooth fairy?, unicorns?......demonic possession ?? :roll:
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#6  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 26, 2017 9:09 am

Failure to rigourously define 'mind' has been noted.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#7  Postby DavidMcC » Dec 26, 2017 11:45 am

The critical issues here are the cause and definition of "death", which is a process that can take time. In the early part of this period, the mind may survive, at least partially. This will obviously often be the case when, as in the interview, death is defined as "when the heart stops". It does, of course depend very much on the cause of death, so the thread title is highly misleading, IMO. For example, if death is caused by being rapidly crushed to bits under a heavy, but unseen, object, then there will be almost no time for which the mind can survive after the heart stops.
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#8  Postby Fenrir » Dec 26, 2017 1:20 pm

Cardiac arrest (CA) survivors...


/thread
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#9  Postby DavidMcC » Dec 26, 2017 1:32 pm

Fenrir wrote:
Cardiac arrest (CA) survivors...


/thread

:nono:
Didn't you know, that's "coming back from the dead"!
...
:smile:
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#10  Postby Fenrir » Dec 26, 2017 1:41 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
Fenrir wrote:
Cardiac arrest (CA) survivors...


/thread

:nono:
Didn't you know, that's "coming back from the dead"!
...
:smile:
"I'm not dead. I feel happy. I think I'll go for a walk."

"You're not fooling anyone you know."
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#11  Postby DavidMcC » Dec 26, 2017 1:46 pm

Fenrir wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
Fenrir wrote:
Cardiac arrest (CA) survivors...


/thread

:nono:
Didn't you know, that's "coming back from the dead"!
...
:smile:
"I'm not dead. I feel happy. I think I'll go for a walk."

"You're not fooling anyone you know."

You know I was joking, right?
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#12  Postby Fenrir » Dec 26, 2017 1:55 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
Fenrir wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
Fenrir wrote:

/thread

:nono:
Didn't you know, that's "coming back from the dead"!
...
:smile:
"I'm not dead. I feel happy. I think I'll go for a walk."

"You're not fooling anyone you know."

You know I was joking, right?
Well yes, I just always find it hilarious that these papers which supposedly show the mind surviving death exclusively consist of documenting the accounts of survivors, i.e. those who didn't die.

And in case you didn't get the vaguely relevant reference

https://youtu.be/grbSQ6O6kbs
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#13  Postby DavidMcC » Dec 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Fenrir wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
Fenrir wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
:nono:
Didn't you know, that's "coming back from the dead"!
...
:smile:
"I'm not dead. I feel happy. I think I'll go for a walk."

"You're not fooling anyone you know."

You know I was joking, right?
Well yes, I just always find it hilarious that these papers which supposedly show the mind surviving death exclusively consist of documenting the accounts of survivors, i.e. those who didn't die.

And in case you didn't get the vaguely relevant reference

https://youtu.be/grbSQ6O6kbs

Sorry, I didn't even consider the reference. Life's too short to follow up on every little thing.
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#14  Postby Wortfish » Dec 26, 2017 3:01 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:Failure to rigourously define 'mind' has been noted.


That's my description. The researchers just refer to "awareness".
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#15  Postby Wortfish » Dec 26, 2017 3:05 pm

DavidMcC wrote:The critical issues here are the cause and definition of "death", which is a process that can take time. In the early part of this period, the mind may survive, at least partially. This will obviously often be the case when, as in the interview, death is defined as "when the heart stops". It does, of course depend very much on the cause of death, so the thread title is highly misleading, IMO. For example, if death is caused by being rapidly crushed to bits under a heavy, but unseen, object, then there will be almost no time for which the mind can survive after the heart stops.


Dr. Parnia's research shows that the brain shuts down when the heart stops. But it doesn't decompose immediately. That allows people to be brought back from a state of clinical death. But. as the brain is inactive during this period, there should be no awareness....but there is.
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#16  Postby LucidFlight » Dec 26, 2017 3:11 pm

The thing I don't get is why we even need a brain in the first place.
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#17  Postby DavidMcC » Dec 26, 2017 3:27 pm

LucidFlight wrote:The thing I don't get is why we even need a brain in the first place.

Are you serious?? :lol:
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#18  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 26, 2017 3:56 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:Failure to rigourously define 'mind' has been noted.


That's my description. The researchers just refer to "awareness".

I was referring to the study. What is awareness? Awareness in what sense and of what?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#19  Postby Wortfish » Dec 26, 2017 4:32 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Wortfish wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:Failure to rigourously define 'mind' has been noted.


That's my description. The researchers just refer to "awareness".

I was referring to the study. What is awareness? Awareness in what sense and of what?


Being conscious of what is going on around oneself. 2% of the patients could see the doctors operating on their bodies even though their brains were inactive. They described in detail what was going on at the time. About 10% recalled being met by resplendent angels and dead relatives and saw a radiant light. Many of these people had no religious convictions.

In the past, these actual/near death experiences were treated as hallucinations by a dying brain. But we can now observe that brain states are inactive and no electrical activity takes place between the neurons during this state.
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Re: Comprehensive evidence that the mind surives death

#20  Postby Wortfish » Dec 26, 2017 4:33 pm

LucidFlight wrote:The thing I don't get is why we even need a brain in the first place.

The brain is the seat of the nervous system, but not necessarily the seat of consciousness.
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