Cool....the Subjective Experience of Spiders

i.e. what's it like to be a spider :)

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Cool....the Subjective Experience of Spiders

#1  Postby kennyc » Jun 05, 2014 2:20 am

:lol:

But seriously, interesting stuff!

Spiders fine tune their webs like a musical instrument
Spiders use their vibrating webs almost like an external sense organ, allowing them to gather sonic information about their environment.
By: Bryan Nelson


Spiders, it turns out, are some of nature's finest musicians. Researchers from the Universities of Oxford, Strathclyde, and Sheffield have recently discovered that spider webs can be tuned to a wide range of harmonics, and that the spiders themselves are doing the tuning, reports Nature World News.

This isn't the first time that people have considered the potential of spider web as a string instrument. For instance, one violin-maker recently used webbing to spin strings for a violin. But this is the first evidence that spiders harness the musical prowess of their own webs.

This doesn't mean that arachnids everywhere are secretly hosting jam sessions and crooning spider folk ballads. Rather, it seems that spiders tune their webs in such a way to garner sensory information about their environment based on the vibrations. They are essentially using their webs like an external sense organ.

.....


http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animal ... z33j3ZonoU
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Re: Cool....the Subjective Experience of Spiders

#2  Postby DavidMcC » Jun 05, 2014 3:00 pm

Having senses does not necessarily imply having subjective experience based on the sensory input, Kenny! :naughty:
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Re: Cool....the Subjective Experience of Spiders

#3  Postby kennyc » Jun 05, 2014 3:02 pm

Of course it does, you're just confused.
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Re: Cool....the Subjective Experience of Spiders

#4  Postby DavidMcC » Jun 05, 2014 3:09 pm

kennyc wrote:Of course it does, you're just confused.

No, it doesn't. A robot with eyes (or other sensory equipment) can sense things, but doesn't have any subjective experience about what it senses.
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Re: Cool....the Subjective Experience of Spiders

#5  Postby kennyc » Jun 05, 2014 3:20 pm

As I said, and have pointed out on multiple threads, you are confused about this subject.

Speaking of robots....from Auto World News:

http://www.autoworldnews.com/articles/7 ... chnids.htm
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Re: Cool....the Subjective Experience of Spiders

#6  Postby DavidMcC » Jun 05, 2014 4:27 pm

kennyc wrote:As I said, and have pointed out on multiple threads, you are confused about this subject.

...

More likely is that you do not understand the phrase, SE in the same way that I do. To me it's as obvious that you are wrong as it apparently is to you that I am wrong! :coffee:
To me, SE requires a consciousness-capable brain, ie one with a neocortex, and thalamus, as well as sensory cortices wired in appropriately. I doubt that spiders have even an equivalent of them in their little brains.
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Re: Cool....the Subjective Experience of Spiders

#7  Postby kennyc » Jun 05, 2014 4:30 pm

I know what you believe. You are wrong.
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Re: Cool....the Subjective Experience of Spiders

#8  Postby DavidMcC » Jun 05, 2014 4:32 pm

... I was, of course, referring to animal consciousness above. We do not know anything about machine consciousness, except that a complete simulation of a consciousness-capable brain would necessarily be conscious itself. However, such a simulation would necessarily be far more complex than the brain being simulated.
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Re: Cool....the Subjective Experience of Spiders

#9  Postby DavidMcC » Jun 05, 2014 4:33 pm

kennyc wrote:I know what you believe. You are wrong.

So, you are right, by definition?
Please show me where I am wrong, in terms of your beliefs.
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Re: Cool....the Subjective Experience of Spiders

#10  Postby kennyc » Jun 05, 2014 4:34 pm

DavidMcC wrote:... I was, of course, referring to animal consciousness above. We do not know anything about machine consciousness, except that a complete simulation of a consciousness-capable brain would necessarily be conscious itself. However, such a simulation would necessarily be far more complex than the brain being simulated.


How it feels to be a robot. :P
Last edited by kennyc on Jun 05, 2014 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cool....the Subjective Experience of Spiders

#11  Postby kennyc » Jun 05, 2014 4:35 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
kennyc wrote:I know what you believe. You are wrong.

So, you are right, by definition?
Please show me where I am wrong, in terms of your beliefs.



Been there done that, not doing it again. I invite you or anyone reading to (re)visit the hundreds of past threads where it has been shown.
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Re: Cool....the Subjective Experience of Spiders

#12  Postby DavidMcC » Jun 05, 2014 4:45 pm

kennyc wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
kennyc wrote:I know what you believe. You are wrong.

So, you are right, by definition?
Please show me where I am wrong, in terms of your beliefs.



Been there done that, not doing it again. I invite you or anyone reading to (re)visit the hundreds of past threads where it has been shown.

I don't know what you are talking about. At least mention the most basic reason why you feel that anything with senses must have feelings about those senses? To me, it doesn't even make sense to claim that, given that many species rely on genetically programmed command instincts, combined with the senses, and sometimes a small amount of memory, to determine their actions (if only because there may not be enough time to do otherwise, or because the individual is expendable, as with ants).
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Re: Cool....the Subjective Experience of Spiders

#13  Postby DavidMcC » Jun 05, 2014 5:02 pm

kennyc wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:... I was, of course, referring to animal consciousness above. We do not know anything about machine consciousness, except that a complete simulation of a consciousness-capable brain would necessarily be conscious itself. However, such a simulation would necessarily be far more complex than the brain being simulated.


How it feels to be a robot. :P

Like I said, it would take a huge-brained, and currently out of the question, robot to have realistic human feelings. Perhaps a very much simplified robot, dumping most of the senses and their associated cortices, and the robotic equivalent of most of the brain structures that feed into human consciousness (assuming such can be designed) could be constructed. It would, however, have to be able to express its feelings to us, otherwise we would be none the wiser for the project.
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