Depression

Studies of mental functions, behaviors and the nervous system.

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Re: Depression

#81  Postby ADParker » Oct 11, 2013 8:54 am


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All Posts from when consistency joined the discussion here have been moved to the following thread: consistency on Depression, as it has been determined that there are two distinct discussions, one before and one after that point, each deserving of their own thread in their appropriate section of the forum. No posts have been removed, so feel free to continue either discussion in their appropriate threads.
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Re: Depression

#82  Postby Agrippina » Oct 11, 2013 10:05 am

Thanks. :thumbup:
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Re: Depression

#83  Postby orpheus » Oct 17, 2013 3:41 am

Fallible wrote:I wonder how many people would tell someone with a different health complaint to only use medication as a last resort.


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Re: Depression

#84  Postby orpheus » Oct 17, 2013 3:45 am

Moridin wrote:
CdesignProponentsist wrote:I would say the best guideline would be try to minimize medication as much as comfortably possible. Don't rule them out, just look for alternatives first then medicate if and as needed.


Antidepressants have a low to moderate effect size compared with placebo (the meta-analyses by both Turner and Kirsch found an effect size of d ~0.32), even taking into account publication bias.

The statement that people should "look for alternatives" (and I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are not talking about alternative medicine) to psychiatric medical treatments that work is irrational and boarders on anti-psychiatry.

Individuals with depression should have access to the best possible treatments (which is a combination of antidepressants and cognitive behavioral therapy). They should not be tricked into a less effective treatment plan by uninformed anti-medicine assertions given without evidence.

Never take medical advice from the Internet.


:this: as well.

In the other thread I quote from Andrew Solomon's excellent book about this: http://www.rationalskepticism.org/pseud ... l#p1830251
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Re: Depression

#85  Postby talkietoaster » Oct 28, 2013 1:02 pm

Hi all,

I thought I would give an update. I like to say thanks to all of those that provided information or insite into your own experience it was helpful.

I am currently off the anti depressants and started to feel better in myself. From counselling I started to implement one change after another and it has seemed to have done wonders for me. I am feeling happier and don't feel like the world is on top of me.

My wife was amazing, she was a great support and now the ultimate goal is not to get depressed over christmas lol.
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Re: Depression

#86  Postby Agrippina » Oct 28, 2013 1:10 pm

That's wonderful news talkietoaster. :thumbup:

I have to say that talking about it, or rather actually writing down my deepest fears and about the things that frighten me, has helped to put them into perspective, not only for me, but for my DH as well. He certainly understands the condition a lot better now.

It's great to have a support group around the world, people who don't judge you but simply are there at any time when you need them.
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Re: Depression

#87  Postby ADParker » Oct 28, 2013 9:44 pm

That's great to hear talkietoaster. I've had my own issues with it myself, not as severe as many have experienced, but still nasty. I'm glad to hear that you are on what looks like the right track for you. :thumbup:
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Re: Depression

#88  Postby Agrippina » Nov 16, 2013 5:52 am

I have to comment on this thread because I've had a breakthrough. I've been seeing a new doctor who recommended that I get tested for ASD (autism spectrum disorder), and I've been doing some talk therapy about my long, two-year bout of recurring depression. The outcome is that I am indeed on the autism spectrum and that rather than being caused by depression, my reaction to stress, like losing the sale of my house, and a lot of money in the process, two years ago, was not a major depressive episode in the clinical definition, but rather a typically Asperger's reaction to stress. The rushing off to crawl into bed with a book and hiding away from the world etc etc., was a coping mechanism rather than a proper "nervous breakdown." This is great news. It sounds a little odd to be pleased that I have a diagnosis, albeit not a psychiatric one, but just from talking it through and having run through a couple of tests, both the US and Australian ones, I'm now able to explain a whole lot of what I've always thought was just odd about me.

The result is that my head is clear, I'm sleeping for proper hours and I'm now able to say to people that there's a reason why I talk too much, and don't want to attend their parties. :thumbup:

I'm going up north next weekend, mostly to see my grandkids, and attend a 3rd birthday party, but also to see some more people to discuss this.
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Re: Depression

#89  Postby cherries » Nov 16, 2013 8:22 am

Agrippina wrote:
The result is that my head is clear, I'm sleeping for proper hours and I'm now able to say to people that there's a reason why I talk too much, and don't want to attend their parties. :thumbup:

I'm going up north next weekend, mostly to see my grandkids, and attend a 3rd birthday party, but also to see some more people to discuss this.


I'm glad that you are feeling better aggie, but I don't think you talk to much, I like reading your posts and am grateful thst you share your thoughts here on this forum.
Have fun on your holiday :cheers:


edit, I might not always share your opinion but that's very rare anyway that one shares the same opinion with someone always, it's friendship that counts, I think sometimes people forget this or just don't bother on this internet.
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Re: Depression

#90  Postby Agrippina » Nov 16, 2013 10:55 am

cherries wrote:
Agrippina wrote:
The result is that my head is clear, I'm sleeping for proper hours and I'm now able to say to people that there's a reason why I talk too much, and don't want to attend their parties. :thumbup:

I'm going up north next weekend, mostly to see my grandkids, and attend a 3rd birthday party, but also to see some more people to discuss this.


I'm glad that you are feeling better aggie, but I don't think you talk to much, I like reading your posts and am grateful thst you share your thoughts here on this forum.
Have fun on your holiday :cheers:


Thanks cherries. Haven't seen you here very much. :hugs:
Not really a holiday as much as just a weekend, but a very busy one with lots of people to see. Luckily I'll have one or more of my kids with me all the time, so it won't be too daunting.

It's been a very interesting journey, learning about all the stuff I've always beaten myself up about, and now that I know why, I can explain to people to simply tell me when I'm boring (which is most of the time according to some of my extended family members).

edit, I might not always share your opinion but that's very rare anyway that one shares the same opinion with someone always, it's friendship that counts, I think sometimes people forget this or just don't bother on this internet.
[/quote]
Of course it is. Friendship isn't about agreeing with everything a friend says, it's more about respecting your friendship enough to not allow your disagreements to destroy the friendship.

I've made some wonderful friends on the internet, and especially on this forum. I wish I could get to know some of them in real life. It's easier for me to be friends with people on the internet anyway. Real life friendships are way too hard for me.
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Re: Depression

#91  Postby chairman bill » Nov 16, 2013 11:18 am

I went back to the doc & got some antidepressants. After a week my mood had lifted & though a few side-effects remain, I feel better now than I did during the summer, when I felt more or less normal. I might just stay on them for good.
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Re: Depression

#92  Postby Agrippina » Nov 16, 2013 11:37 am

chairman bill wrote:I went back to the doc & got some antidepressants. After a week my mood had lifted & though a few side-effects remain, I feel better now than I did during the summer, when I felt more or less normal. I might just stay on them for good.


I've taken anti-depressants for years without any relief from all the various fears etc. Now I have only a sleeping pill, if I absolutely cannot sleep, but haven't taken one in weeks now, and this, if I'm overwhelmed and having a panic attack. I've taken one of those, but that's because of an ongoing situation that won't be resolved for a few months, but I'm definitely coping better with that since my diagnosis. And I've only taken 2 out of a pack of 10 in a month.

The relief from depression has been amazing. When this has happened in the past, doctors have told me that I'm going into a manic phase and possibly need to be treated for bipolar disorder. I've resisted that, because when I'm happy I don't display the typical behaviour patterns of bipolar disorder mania. About the worst thing I do is to say inappropriate things to complete strangers, like complimenting them on their outfits or hairdos, or telling "dirty" jokes in inappropriate situations. :what:

I discussed my childhood, and life history etc with the therapist, and he says that even my seizures that were diagnosed as "epilepsy" when I was young and "vasovagal" attacks when I was middle aged, could be related. Which is why I want to talk to more authorities on the subject, next weekend. I really need to learn more about this.
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Re: Depression

#93  Postby cherries » Nov 16, 2013 10:13 pm

Agrippina wrote:Thanks cherries. Haven't seen you here very much. :hugs:
Not really a holiday as much as just a weekend, but a very busy one with lots of people to see. Luckily I'll have one or more of my kids with me all the time, so it won't be too daunting.

It's been a very interesting journey, learning about all the stuff I've always beaten myself up about, and now that I know why, I can explain to people to simply tell me when I'm boring (which is most of the time according to some of my extended family members).


:hugs: i sort of self banned myself from this forum and have been mostly on facebook only, where i continued to read your posts, it always struck me that you are quite straightforward in your thinking and that you like to speak your mind which i like .
because i wasn't on this forum so long i missed a lot of what has been going on and am completely out of touch.
it doesn't feel like it did before now, which is a bit sad for me.

don't beat yourself up because you are you, screw them.
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Re: Depression

#94  Postby Agrippina » Nov 17, 2013 3:48 am

cherries wrote:
Agrippina wrote:Thanks cherries. Haven't seen you here very much. :hugs:
Not really a holiday as much as just a weekend, but a very busy one with lots of people to see. Luckily I'll have one or more of my kids with me all the time, so it won't be too daunting.

It's been a very interesting journey, learning about all the stuff I've always beaten myself up about, and now that I know why, I can explain to people to simply tell me when I'm boring (which is most of the time according to some of my extended family members).


:hugs: i sort of self banned myself from this forum and have been mostly on facebook only, where i continued to read your posts, it always struck me that you are quite straightforward in your thinking and that you like to speak your mind which i like .

:grin: That straightforwardness gets me into a lot of trouble.
because i wasn't on this forum so long i missed a lot of what has been going on and am completely out of touch.
it doesn't feel like it did before now, which is a bit sad for me.

It happens when the community gets large. Which is what has happened here. I only post in threads where I feel comfortable chatting now. I've given up trying to make small talk, even on the internet. It's just too difficult to do it without stressing about what to say.

don't beat yourself up because you are you, screw them.

Indeed which is why my feelings of being depressed have improved so much. I still have periods when I feel down, but then I just lose myself in a book, and that makes me feel a lot better. I've stopped trying to fit in socially now too, in real life. It's just too hard to make the effort to dress to please other people and to stick to the boring subjects they want to talk about "ooh isn't it a beautiful day, we might have rain today!" Yeah, whatever! For me, every conversation turns into a lecture, and then people make excuses and walk away, so I'd rather just avoid them. It's lonely, in the real world, but now that my real friends know why I do it, they just steer me away from my droning on and on, and I shut up. :grin:
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Re: Depression

#95  Postby cherries » Nov 17, 2013 10:17 am

Agrippina wrote: :grin: That straightforwardness gets me into a lot of trouble.


well that will sort out the people who truly value you from the rest.

Agrippina wrote:It happens when the community gets large. Which is what has happened here. I only post in threads where I feel comfortable chatting now. I've given up trying to make small talk, even on the internet. It's just too difficult to do it without stressing about what to say.


i have the opposite impression.
i think that's an excellent idea, just post where you feel comfortable, if you feel that people start digging at you for no reason it's better just to get out if it makes you feel bad :hugs:
Agrippina wrote:Indeed which is why my feelings of being depressed have improved so much. I still have periods when I feel down, but then I just lose myself in a book, and that makes me feel a lot better. I've stopped trying to fit in socially now too, in real life. It's just too hard to make the effort to dress to please other people and to stick to the boring subjects they want to talk about "ooh isn't it a beautiful day, we might have rain today!" Yeah, whatever! For me, every conversation turns into a lecture, and then people make excuses and walk away, so I'd rather just avoid them. It's lonely, in the real world, but now that my real friends know why I do it, they just steer me away from my droning on and on, and I shut up. :grin:


i'd love to meet you in real life, and i wouldn't mind a lecture or two :lol:
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Re: Depression

#96  Postby Agrippina » Nov 17, 2013 11:32 am

Aww thank you cherries. What a lovely thing to say.

Yes, on the posting, it's taken me a long time to get to grips with the depression that's dogged me for most of my adult life. Now that my suicidal feelings, and hiding in my bed, were really just my brain's way of dealing with stimulation overload, and that my angry outbursts are also just overreacting to sometimes unintended and misinterpreted "insults" or frustration with my inability to do things that I'm simply not able to do, I feel so much better. There's so much clarity I'm finding now, the more I read and the more I speak to people who've lived with knowing who they are for a long time. It's been really great to not have had a "depression" episode in over a month. What's so nice too is that my DH has stopped pressuring me to stay in social situations when I want to leave, and also the he's happy if I simply decline and choose to be alone instead. Yesterday, for instance, there was a market at our local shopping mall, and a band playing really loud music. I became a little agitated at the crowds and the noise, and then he pointed out a pair of dogs who seemed to be suffering the same kind of noise overload that I was. I went over, spent some time petting them, and felt a whole lot better. Great stuff. Now all I need is for shopping malls to allow people to take their dogs inside and I won't run away when the crowds and the noise get too much for me. :lol:

Which is why, after a few days, possibly a couple of weeks away, I came back to post, and I'm only posting in a couple of threads. If I don't feel comfortable somewhere, I'll just leave and find somewhere else to chat.
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Re: Depression

#97  Postby cherries » Nov 18, 2013 12:10 am

so sorry what you had to go through, i've been having a difficult time myself and sometimes forget that others might have even more pressing problems than myself, everything i hear about your husband sounds as if he's a great guy, you are so lucky in this respect and i know you know it, am sure he counts himself lucky too.
when i feel very down i'm practically disabled, i get Very sleepy, it's like i'm under some drugs, trying to pull myself together but it's very hard.
i love petting dogs too :) maybe you could try and go to the mall when it's not that busy,if people stress you out?
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Re: Depression

#98  Postby orpheus » Nov 18, 2013 3:37 am

Cherries and Aggie, it's interesting that you've both mentioned dogs. When I was going through a really bad episode of major depression, my wife observed that it seemed easier for me to interact with our cat than with other people. I had to admit that it was true. And then a thought occurred to me: in depression, sometimes we want to be left alone, but sometimes it's hard because we want to connect with others -- but paradoxically we just can't bear being with other people. And this is where other animals come in. Who says the contact has to be with a member of our own species?

Our own two cats are great companions. And recently I've found great comfort in going down to a pet rescue place in NYC and spending time with the cats there. They're lost and homeless - who knows what they must be going through emotionally - and I sense kindred spirits there. I also feel good that I'm doing a good deed; the cats seem to like it.
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Re: Depression

#99  Postby Agrippina » Nov 18, 2013 4:22 am

cherries wrote:so sorry what you had to go through, i've been having a difficult time myself and sometimes forget that others might have even more pressing problems than myself, everything i hear about your husband sounds as if he's a great guy, you are so lucky in this respect and i know you know it, am sure he counts himself lucky too.

Oh yes, I certainly do. When I've been at my worst, during last year when I did nothing more than a little housework, and otherwise watched old TV series over and over again, he did everything that needed doing in the outside world and when I did go out, he stayed with me, bringing me home as soon as I started complaining about being overwhelmed.

He's never once commented on my deteriorating (at the time) weight problem, or that I'd wear the same clothes for days on end.

When I started recovering and showed an interest in losing weight and buying new clothes, he went out of his way to help me find clothes that don't pinch, rub and annoy me. He doesn't complain that I prefer comfort over fashion or that I resist getting my hair cut until I absolutely can't deal with it myself anymore. He's a wonderful man.
when i feel very down i'm practically disabled, i get Very sleepy, it's like i'm under some drugs, trying to pull myself together but it's very hard.

I know exactly what you mean. Yesterday afternoon I was expected to walk down to the bowling club to join a party who were going to watch the rugby and eat a communal meal after the bowls game. I crawled into bed instead and stayed there until my dog woke me up to go for a walk. On the walk, I went past the club, found that my best friend was there and she walked back to my house with me and waited while I changed to go back to the party with her. She and my DH sat with me all the time I was there and she even ignored the rugby game, which she loves, to make sure I didn't try to get out and back to my bed again. So I understand exactly what you mean. Bed is great place to recover from the things that hurt, or scare you. The problem is if you have to go out, because you need to work. Perhaps at work you should find a safe place where you can escape from the noise around you. Not easy if it's snowing outside. For me here, it's taking a long walk around the duck pond.
i love petting dogs too :) maybe you could try and go to the mall when it's not that busy,if people stress you out?

I do that, mostly. It's only bad when there's something happening there and the crowds are making a lot of noise. Crowds bother me, but I can escape them by going to browse inside a store, especially the ones that sell technology. At this time of the year it's not easy to escape the non-stop Christmas music and with the long school holidays on now, the crowds of screaming children.
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Re: Depression

#100  Postby Agrippina » Nov 18, 2013 4:33 am

orpheus wrote:Cherries and Aggie, it's interesting that you've both mentioned dogs. When I was going through a really bad episode of major depression, wife observed that it seemed easier for me to interact with our cat than with other people. I had to admit that it was true. And then a thought occurred to me: in depression, sometimes we want to be left alone, but sometimes it's hard because we want to connect with others -- but paradoxically we just can't bear being with other people. And this is where other animals come in. Who says the contact has to be with a member of our own species?

Indeed.
Losing my dog is going to be really hard for me. I remember only too well how we both struggled when we lost the Labrador just before the big disaster of 2011. Bella is almost 10 now, so we have, at most, only two years if her health remains as good as it is now that we have her eating problems under control. I'm going to really battle with her loss, so I'm enjoying every moment I have her with me, and if people think it's odd that I won't leave her alone in the rain and especially when there's a thunderstorm, well tough, they can get over it, she won't.

Our own two cats are great companions. And recently I've found great comfort in going down to a pet rescue place in NYC and spending time with the cats there. They're lost and homeless - who knows what they must be going through emotionally - and I sense kindred spirits there. I also feel good that I'm doing a good deed; the cats seem to like it.

I can't go to those places, as much as I would love to be able to be there as a comfort for them, the stress of seeing them in "prison" is way too painful. Poor things, I feel so sorry for them, but I have to be careful or I'll go crazy and fall apart if I don't back off. We have a wildlife rehab place next door to us, which we visit when they have fund-raising events. It's so wonderful what they do to help hurt and lost animals. But it hurts when I see them injured. There were some jackal babies I saw there a couple of weeks ago, they were desperate to get out of the enclosure, just obsessively pacing up and down the fence, ignoring all the humans who were trying to get them to sit still for a photo op.

There's also another place that has a little petting zoo for kids, that I love to visit. They've just had a new donkey born, so wow, did I ever get a hormone surge playing with that. Lovely, absolutely unbelievably lovely. And my DH was there, loving all the animals as well. He is a really good guy, as cherries said. :thumbup:
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