DavidMcC wrote:TMB wrote:DavidMcC wrote:zoon wrote:
I certainly agree with you that men's larger size doesn't make subordination of women reasonable. I continue to suspect it's why women have been subordinate in so many societies.
Maybe it's actually men's generally greater strength that really subordinated women, historically. (This is only on average, of course.)
I would say that mens greater physical strength means they have not had to develop more subtle coping mechanisms (as women would have had to because they have less physical strength). So the appearance with greater physical strength is that women are subordinate to men and in some cases this is true, but in other cases this is an illusion, just as a position of formal power is a position of real power.
This is why I suggest you look to see which gender is reaping the real rewards in things that are truly valuable. If men were the ones in power, do you think they would be suiciding more and dying younger, or living homelessness or giving up their liberty. If I look at issues facing Aboriginal Australians, these criteria are the ones being used to measure their lack of power. Surely the same criteria are applicable to a gender as to a racial group?
What makes you think that women are "cleverer" (in the sense of more manipulative) than men, just because they are physically weaker? The "dying youinger" issue is not related to their having more power. Do not kid yourself that patriarchal societies are really matriarchal.
You are asking why women, who are physically weaker than men, would have developed coping mechanisms to ensure they retained benefits in a relationship that fundamentally exists so that our species can get better mixing of their genes? And if so why would one of these traits not be a better ability to be more subtly manipulative? Note that men try and manipulate behavior in others, but this is more direct and often more physical than the way women would do it.
Tell me if you have a problem with the logic above and I will try again.
Your second comment I assume to mean that why should we consider mens earlier death to reflect a lack of power to stay alive better than women, or do you mean that you think that men do have more power and this is not the reason they die earlier?
I am not suggesting that we label our society either patriarchal or matriarchal as I consider these labels carry to much political baggage to unravel their actual meaning, so I would prefer to talk specifics wherever possible.