Finally -- quacks exposed on national TV

Grace · #1 by **Grace** » Dec 01, 2011 3:57 am

Children should never be given powerful mind altering drugs, let alone multipharma.

It's outrageous that some doctors, and pharmaceuticals are making billions off of unsuspecting tax payers and helpless children.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/meds-fo ... s-15060795

Grace · #2 by **Grace** » Dec 02, 2011 2:34 am

Part 2 will air Friday night on 20/20 for those who are able to see it. What angers me the most is how close I came to having my youngest child drugged against my better judgement. The quack threatened to take me to court if I didn't agree with her diagnosis. I knew enough about the law to know that parents ultimately have rights over their children, and as long as they haven't been declared incompetent, the threat could never be carried out. I got a second opinion, and blew the bitch off. The gall!

Mr.Samsa · #3 by **Mr.Samsa** » Dec 02, 2011 3:05 am

I don't understand what the news is about. As the GAO report states, there is nothing inherently problematic or illegal about the prescriptions given to the children. The report simply states that there should be national guidelines to ensure that all areas are following the same protocols with regards to things like consent and data sharing.

This is just a typical example of laymen blowing things out of proportion based on their misunderstanding of complex issues. For example, the report found that foster kids were around 5 times more likely to be given medication for psychological issues than non-foster kids and so the news are reporting this as an "abuse" of the system and evidence that they are being overprescribed. But as the GAO report clarifies, this discrepancy is entirely understandable (as foster kids will inevitably have more psychological issues than non-foster kids) and no problems could be found with the rate at which medications are prescribed.

Grace wrote:Children should never be given powerful mind altering drugs, let alone multipharma.

Even if it's required to save their lives? To increase their quality of life? Such an ignorant and blatantly inaccurate generalisation as that simply demonstrates that your disagreement with medication is not a rational position, but an emotional and political one that has no concern for the actual welfare of the kids involved. Simplistic black and white thinking like "all medication is bad" just results in nonsensical knee-jerk reactions which will just put children's lives and well-being at risk.

Grace · #4 by **Grace** » Dec 02, 2011 3:48 pm

A very bright young boy decided to get off his 12 prescriptions, suffered agonizing withdrawal so he could live a normal life, and went on to testify before Congress about the medication abuse of children in Foster care. You didn't read the article and you didn't watch the video.

Mr.Samsa · #5 by **Mr.Samsa** » Dec 03, 2011 1:27 am

Grace wrote:A very bright young boy decided to get off his 12 prescriptions, suffered agonizing withdrawal so he could live a normal life, and went on to testify before Congress about the medication abuse of children in Foster care. You didn't read the article and you didn't watch the video.

Of course I read the article and watched the video - that's how I accurately summarised the article as being a criticism of foster care practices, not psychological medication, and how I was able to paraphrase aspects of the video to demonstrate that it was a vile piece of emotional propaganda. Essentially, the video was an excellent demonstration of why journalists need to get science degrees before commenting on science issues, as they just make asses of themselves by misrepresenting the data. Of course, even if they did have science degrees, they'd still misrepresent the issues because they want drama, rather than to present the truth.

ermine · #6 by **ermine** » Dec 05, 2011 7:03 am

You tell 'er, Samsa!

I hate seeing someone be refuted and have them respond with "You didn't read/watch the article", especially when it's patently obvious that I have. Even more annoying when it's clear that it's just projection, that -they- haven't read it. (or understood it, at least!) Don't let people get away with it!

Mazille · #7 by **Mazille** » Dec 05, 2011 7:11 am

SpeedOfSound · #8 by **SpeedOfSound** » Dec 09, 2011 1:10 am

Grace wrote:Children should never be given powerful mind altering drugs, let alone multipharma.

It's outrageous that some doctors, and pharmaceuticals are making billions off of unsuspecting tax payers and helpless children.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/meds-fo ... s-15060795

My niece was a victim of that system. As an adult she still is.

SpeedOfSound · #9 by **SpeedOfSound** » Dec 09, 2011 1:12 am

Mr.Samsa wrote:
Grace wrote:A very bright young boy decided to get off his 12 prescriptions, suffered agonizing withdrawal so he could live a normal life, and went on to testify before Congress about the medication abuse of children in Foster care. You didn't read the article and you didn't watch the video.

Of course I read the article and watched the video - that's how I accurately summarised the article as being a criticism of foster care practices, not psychological medication, and how I was able to paraphrase aspects of the video to demonstrate that it was a vile piece of emotional propaganda. Essentially, the video was an excellent demonstration of why journalists need to get science degrees before commenting on science issues, as they just make asses of themselves by misrepresenting the data. Of course, even if they did have science degrees, they'd still misrepresent the issues because they want drama, rather than to present the truth.

Psychotropic drugs are right up there with lobotomies. I knew one person in my entire life that actually needed anti-depressants and I can't think of one person right now that hasn't at some point had them prescribed.

endless psych · **#10** by **endless psych** » Dec 23, 2011 11:40 pm

Declaration of interest: I am currently on prescription anti depressants for severe depression.

Speed of Sound: While you may earnestly believe you have only met one person who has correctly been prescribed antidepressants and many others who were prescribed without need your perception may be clouded.

Speaking as a depressive I think there is a real problem with people's perception of how ill someone with mental health issues is because you will tend only to see us on "good days".

Not on the days when we can't even leave the house or worse get out of bed.

I do wonder, from people's reactions to my mental health issues, if they believe me to be malingering or misdiagnosed because I don't conform to their idea of what someone who suffers with an affective disorder should be like all the time.

Some days I am reasonably normal, the number of these greatly increased with the aid of medication, and it is these days I am likely to meet and see people. The days when the blackness really strikes I am unlikely to see anyone. So no one, or very few people, actually see the devastating and debilitating impact of my depression.

For some anti depressants won't work, for others they may be a magic bullet but for me they are a sticking plaster that allow me to do the other things I need to get help and get better.

endless psych · **#11** by **endless psych** » Dec 23, 2011 11:43 pm

Though I do wonder how much variation there is between the UK, Europe and the US in terms of mental health prescribing.

My, culturally biased, view would be that the UK and Europe are more sensible in prescribing drugs for mental health issues whereas the US seems to be at a rather more extreme end of the prescribing spectrum with much more reliance on various cocktails of drugs and a pill for every ill.

Happy to have that prejudice challenged or sadly confirmed. But I really don't think the drugs themselves are the issue rather the cultural attitude of doctors and psychiatrists towards them.

orpheus · **#12** by **orpheus** » Dec 24, 2011 12:20 am

Why, I wonder (yet again) is there such a negative attitude toward psychiatric medication? I acknowledge that there are problems in the system. But so many people (I'm not accusing anyone here, necessarily) clearly have something more against it; there's the feeling that at root, taking medication for psychological problems just isn't right.

As I've said elsewhere on RatSkep, count me as one whose life has been saved by psychiatric medication. I'm speaking quite literally. And I have absolutely no intention of going off my meds. To do so would not be "to live a normal life". Quite the opposite: the medication allows me to have a normal life.

orpheus · **#13** by **orpheus** » Dec 24, 2011 12:37 am

I'll go farther, and say that I truly wish I had been diagnosed and treated much earlier. In retrospect, it's clear that I've suffered from mild depression all my life, and it got worse pretty early on. It's also clear that in my youth that I was at risk for bipolar disorder. By mid-adolescence it was beginning to manifest. I wasn't diagnosed until the episodes became totally incapacitating when I was in my early 30s.

Looking back, there's a lot of my life I wish I could do over again. I suffered for years, unnecessarily, and I'm not going to get that time back.

On the positive side, I'm very glad I've found treatment that works. Depression - both unipolar and bipolar - is a disease that kills people.

Lizard_King · **#14** by **Lizard_King** » Dec 24, 2011 11:19 am

Psycotropic drugs are not really that different from any other drug. If you need them, they can greatly increase your well-being and even save your life, so it is probably a good idea to take them. If you don't need them, don't take them.

As for the habits of prescribing these kinds of things in Europe: as far as I can tell from my somewhat limited experience in this field, the only thing that seems to be handed out quite carelessly by physicians are benzodiazepines. If you look at the medication of an average elderly person, there's a good chance you'll find some benzos there. Other stuff, like antidepressants and such, is not that commonly prescribed here in Germany and Austria, at least as far as I can tell.

OT: glad to hear you two are doing better now, endless psych and orpheus. I can somewhat relate to you guys, and I wish you all the best. :thumbup:

edited for spelling