Iatrogenic seeds and psychoactive medication.

Fallible · **#21** by **Fallible** » Jan 27, 2018 2:32 pm

What panacea? There's no cure for diabetes. Those with the condition are free to stop taking their medication, but it's unlikely to end well for them. There's no cure for schizophrenia. Those with the condition are free to stop taking their medication, but it's unlikely to end well from them. 'Hang on', you say, 'I stopped taking mine and I feel better than I ever did when I was on it'. Sure. Do you want done to you what you are so keen to do with your young lady? Want me, with no authority whatsoever, and no power to diagnose mental disorders whatsoever, to go to the first website I can find which lists the symptoms of schizophrenia and relate to you the bits about delusion, disorganised behaviour, lack of inhibition and impulse control, neologisms, perseveration, imo imo?

surreptitious57 · **#22** by **surreptitious57** » Jan 27, 2018 3:31 pm

I find it quite alarming that you probably had cancer for some years before any noticeable symptoms. I heard of Tessa Jowells brain cancer last week and her diagnosis was also completely unexpected. Cancer kills healthy cells and it can spread all over the body. Yet while doing so it can go undetected for so long and make it even harder to eliminate. But the other thing which struck me is how in all other respects how healthy you were. For a non smoking occasional wine drinking vegetarian with two dogs should I would have thought been sufficiently immune from cancer. I used to think that if you had a healthy diet and did not smoke and only drank in moderation and took regular exercise you would be fine. But I suppose this was a bit naive of me
so I now think anyone can get it no matter what. Maybe healthy people are statistically less likely to get it but get it they can

Fallible · **#23** by **Fallible** » Jan 27, 2018 3:59 pm

I'm not vegetarian, but anyway, some cancers are caused by lifestyle, e.g. many lung cancers, but you can get lung cancer without having smoked a single cigarette. I'd say most are not. Think of all the children with cancer. My own cancer was not lifestyle related. The consultant explained it to me. It was most likely caused by a genetic fault. This fault could have been with me since birth. My cancer was sheer bad luck in the genetic lottery. I don't smoke, don't drink to excess, eat lots of vegetables, don't work with chemicals, am not old and have no family history of kidney cancer. My colleague at work was diagnosed with mouth cancer around 3 years ago. She is older than me, but she is the very model of clean living. She actually IS a vegetarian. In fact she's a health nut. Didn't matter.

surreptitious57 · **#24** by **surreptitious57** » Jan 27, 2018 4:45 pm

I do remember you said a while ago that you gave up meat because you did not like the taste
Or is it that you do not eat meat but do eat fish which some vegetarians class as meat as well

Fallible · **#25** by **Fallible** » Jan 27, 2018 4:53 pm

I did stop eating meat at one point, that's right. I eat meat now, but I'd rather have fish. Which is flesh, so basically meat. I'd say I eat mostly fish and quorn with occasional red meat and chicken.

Keep It Real · **#26** by **Keep It Real** » Jan 27, 2018 6:04 pm

Fallible wrote:What panacea?

Panacea is the wrong word I guess just wanted no convey "awesome cure". http://www.rationalskepticism.org/psychology/iatrogenic-seeds-and-psychoactive-medication-t54851.html#p2611313

There's no cure for schizophrenia. Those with the condition are free to stop taking their medication, but it's unlikely to end well from them.

I think I no longer suffer from schizophrenia so I guess I disagree with that.

delusion,

Not at all recently I don't think...

disorganised behaviour, lack of inhibition and impulse control,

When drunk...

neologisms,

Sometimes they're unavoidable imo...

perseveration,

Oooooh; lovely new word. Sometimes a word/phrase which is currently esoteric need be drilled home and popularised imo...also; the usual; when drunk :roll:

imo imo?

lol

SafeAsMilk · **#27** by **SafeAsMilk** » Jan 27, 2018 6:13 pm

Fallible wrote:What panacea?

Ever get the feeling someone's just looking for excuses to use words they've just discovered like 'iatrogenic' and 'panacea'?

I think I no longer suffer from schizophrenia so I guess I disagree with that.

Well you can disagree with the vast swathes of evidence gathered by actual experts that indicate there's no cure for schizophrenia, but that's not a particularly reasonable position to take. I mean, it's not like you'd have any reason to fool yourself, right?

Keep It Real · **#28** by **Keep It Real** » Jan 27, 2018 6:20 pm

Oh dear; and I was really enjoying this thread until you turned up with your misinformed snide "lets have a go at KIR" attitude again SAM.

Keep It Real · **#29** by **Keep It Real** » Jan 27, 2018 6:21 pm

perseveration

Keep It Real · **#30** by **Keep It Real** » Jan 27, 2018 6:29 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
I think I no longer suffer from schizophrenia so I guess I disagree with that.

Well you can disagree with the vast swathes of evidence gathered by actual experts that indicate there's no cure for schizophrenia, but that's not a particularly reasonable position to take. I mean, it's not like you'd have any reason to fool yourself, right?

Your post is an ignorant twat to be honest.

"The stereotype everyone has of this disease is that there's no such thing as recovery," said Washington psychiatrist E. Fuller Torrey, who has written extensively about schizophrenia, an illness he has studied for decades and one that has afflicted his younger sister for nearly half a century. "The fact is that recovery is more common than people have been led to believe

https://www.healthyplace.com/thought-disorders/schizophrenia-articles/beautiful-but-not-rare-recovery/

Keep It Real · **#31** by **Keep It Real** » Jan 27, 2018 6:31 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Fallible wrote:What panacea?

Ever get the feeling someone's just looking for excuses to use words they've just discovered like 'iatrogenic' and 'panacea'?

Oh yeah; I just discovered the word panacea and I'm sure you knew of the word iatrogenic before me. Fuck over there
approximately 1 mile pretty please.

Fallible · **#32** by **Fallible** » Jan 27, 2018 6:34 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Fallible wrote:What panacea?

Panacea is the wrong word I guess just wanted no convey "awesome cure". http://www.rationalskepticism.org/psychology/iatrogenic-seeds-and-psychoactive-medication-t54851.html#p2611313

There's no cure for schizophrenia. Those with the condition are free to stop taking their medication, but it's unlikely to end well from them.

I think I no longer suffer from schizophrenia so I guess I disagree with that.

I guess you do. People with MS can live for years without experiencing a flare. That doesn't mean they no longer have MS.

delusion,

Not at all recently I don't think...

You think a number of things roundly contradicted by facts. Today, you think you're qualified to diagnose personality disorders because a part of your degree was in psychology, and you think psychoanalysts can diagnose personality disorders.

disorganised behaviour, lack of inhibition and impulse control,

When drunk...

Mhm.

neologisms,

Sometimes they're unavoidable imo...

That's exactly the point. You haven't been able to avoid them.

perseveration,

Oooooh; lovely new word. Sometimes a word/phrase which is currently esoteric need be drilled home and popularised imo....also; the usual; when drunk

You drunk now?

imo imo?

lol

See how pointless it is to try and diagnose mental disorders this way? Your lady love can do exactly the same bobbing and weaving and rationalizing and breaking things down so the meaning of the whole is lost as you've just performed if she's desperate enough.

You didn't answer my question.

Fallible · **#33** by **Fallible** » Jan 27, 2018 6:38 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
I think I no longer suffer from schizophrenia so I guess I disagree with that.

Well you can disagree with the vast swathes of evidence gathered by actual experts that indicate there's no cure for schizophrenia, but that's not a particularly reasonable position to take. I mean, it's not like you'd have any reason to fool yourself, right?

Your post is an ignorant twat to be honest.

"The stereotype everyone has of this disease is that there's no such thing as recovery," said Washington psychiatrist E. Fuller Torrey, who has written extensively about schizophrenia, an illness he has studied for decades and one that has afflicted his younger sister for nearly half a century. "The fact is that recovery is more common than people have been led to believe

https://www.healthyplace.com/thought-disorders/schizophrenia-articles/beautiful-but-not-rare-recovery/

Would you please explain to me what you think the word 'recovery' means here?

laklak · **#34** by **laklak** » Jan 27, 2018 6:39 pm

Only qualified professionals can diagnose mental disorders.

: just plain nuts.jpg (90.07 KiB) Viewed 1288 times

Keep It Real · **#35** by **Keep It Real** » Jan 27, 2018 6:44 pm

Fallible wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
I think I no longer suffer from schizophrenia so I guess I disagree with that.

Well you can disagree with the vast swathes of evidence gathered by actual experts that indicate there's no cure for schizophrenia, but that's not a particularly reasonable position to take. I mean, it's not like you'd have any reason to fool yourself, right?

Your post is an ignorant twat to be honest.

"The stereotype everyone has of this disease is that there's no such thing as recovery," said Washington psychiatrist E. Fuller Torrey, who has written extensively about schizophrenia, an illness he has studied for decades and one that has afflicted his younger sister for nearly half a century. "The fact is that recovery is more common than people have been led to believe

https://www.healthyplace.com/thought-disorders/schizophrenia-articles/beautiful-but-not-rare-recovery/

Would you please explain to me what you think the word 'recovery' means here?

A permanent cessation of damaging symptoms without medication (hmmmm - not quite sure about the last two words but see the OP so yeah...)

SafeAsMilk · **#36** by **SafeAsMilk** » Jan 27, 2018 6:48 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
Fallible wrote:What panacea?

Ever get the feeling someone's just looking for excuses to use words they've just discovered like 'iatrogenic' and 'panacea'?

Oh yeah; I just discovered the word panacea

Sure seems that way how you've been using it like it's going out of style, completely out of nowhere, and not in a particularly useful way.

and I'm sure you knew of the word iatrogenic before me. Fuck over there
approximately 1 mile pretty please.

I didn't, and I doubt you did either 5 minutes before you started misusing it. That's the point. Try to keep up.

Fallible · **#37** by **Fallible** » Jan 27, 2018 6:50 pm

That's not what the vast majority of the people in your linked article who are said to have 'recovered' experience. And in an attempt to prevent myself from falling down this particular rabbit hole behind you, I'm going to brace my arms and legs against the sides and remind you that what was said was that there is no cure. The article describes gradual improvement over time to the point that people can manage remaining symptoms. That's not a cure fir schizophrenia.

SafeAsMilk · **#38** by **SafeAsMilk** » Jan 27, 2018 6:50 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
I think I no longer suffer from schizophrenia so I guess I disagree with that.

Well you can disagree with the vast swathes of evidence gathered by actual experts that indicate there's no cure for schizophrenia, but that's not a particularly reasonable position to take. I mean, it's not like you'd have any reason to fool yourself, right?

Your post is an ignorant twat to be honest.

Looks like I've hit a bit close to home again.

"The stereotype everyone has of this disease is that there's no such thing as recovery," said Washington psychiatrist E. Fuller Torrey, who has written extensively about schizophrenia, an illness he has studied for decades and one that has afflicted his younger sister for nearly half a century. "The fact is that recovery is more common than people have been led to believe

https://www.healthyplace.com/thought-disorders/schizophrenia-articles/beautiful-but-not-rare-recovery/

You clearly didn't actually read the article. Recovery is not synonymous with being cured by any stretch of the imagination.

Fallible · **#39** by **Fallible** » Jan 27, 2018 6:55 pm

Example: the common cold.

Keep It Real · **#40** by **Keep It Real** » Jan 27, 2018 7:02 pm

Schizophrenia is not a viral infection Fallible. I mean - if you thought the tracheotomy metaphor was a stretch...

Shrunk wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:Still not the faintest hint of the development of psychosis......give it a month and I'll be out of the woods.

Afraid not. It could take months, even years. But it also might never happen. The odds are just against that.

So answer me this doubters - if somebody diagnosed with schizophrenia stops taking antipsychotics and lives for 50 more years before dying, without experiencing any symptoms, is it not fair to say they are cured? Is it really such an inappropriate use of the word? Really?

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