Is your personality based on genetics?

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Is your personality based on genetics?

#1  Postby Tyrannical » Jun 17, 2010 6:27 am

Is your personality based on genetics?

Here is an interesting little article that seems to imply so.....

http://www.livescience.com/culture/personality-fertility-100614.html

"You mustn’t think of personality traits only in terms of how they affect your happiness, or how other people might perceive you," said study researcher Markus Jokela, of the University of Helsinki in Finland. "When you're considering the evolutionary origins of personality, then obviously reproductive success and behaviors related to reproductive success are very very important."
Last edited by Tyrannical on Jun 17, 2010 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is your personality based on genetics?

#2  Postby Ubjon » Jun 17, 2010 6:32 am

Partly genetic but I suspect its mostly environmental
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Re: Is your personality based on genetics?

#3  Postby natselrox » Jun 17, 2010 6:34 am

Ubjon wrote:Partly genetic but I suspect its mostly environmental


End of thread.
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Re: Is your personality based on genetics?

#4  Postby Lazar » Jun 17, 2010 6:55 am

natselrox wrote:
Ubjon wrote:Partly genetic but I suspect its mostly environmental


End of thread.


:this: most research estimates it at 50/50.See overview of research here (warning PDF).
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Re: Is your personality based on genetics?

#5  Postby natselrox » Jun 17, 2010 6:56 am

These discussions allure me like anything. But with Tyrannical in it, I'd better not...
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Re: Is your personality based on genetics?

#6  Postby Lazar » Jun 17, 2010 6:57 am

hang on a moment while I move topic to new home in psychology.

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Re: Is your personality based on genetics?

#7  Postby Lazar » Jun 17, 2010 7:02 am

natselrox wrote:These discussions allure me like anything. But with Tyrannical in it, I'd better not...


You can choose to be in the discussion or not but lets keep personalizations out of it. :thumbup:
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Re: Is your personality based on genetics?

#8  Postby natselrox » Jun 17, 2010 7:03 am

Lazar wrote:
natselrox wrote:These discussions allure me like anything. But with Tyrannical in it, I'd better not...


You can choose to be in the discussion or not but lets keep personalizations out of it. :thumbup:

:grin: :cheers:
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Re: Is your personality based on genetics?

#9  Postby Tyrannical » Jun 17, 2010 7:44 am

Lazar wrote:
natselrox wrote:
Ubjon wrote:Partly genetic but I suspect its mostly environmental


End of thread.


:this: most research estimates it at 50/50.See overview of research here (warning PDF).


Wow, that is quite the interesting PDF.

By age 26 when you have a fully formed adult brain, your intelligence is 88% genetic. But at age 5, only 22% of intelligence is genetic. I can understand why people are supportive of early education programs like Head Start that target disadvantaged youths. It must be horribly confusing to find that almost all the benefits of early nurture vanish by adulthood.

Anti-social behavior is about 40% tied to genetics. Makes you wonder how often rehabilitation is even possible. Perhaps felons should be sterilized :think:

Right wing authoritarianism, which I think was just a bizarre thing to test for, is 50%-64% genetic. I wonder if the same can be said for Liberalism? Perhaps reeducation camps just aren't feasible :lol:
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Re: Is your personality based on genetics?

#10  Postby Lazar » Jun 17, 2010 8:13 am

I don't think it suggests this Tyrannical. I think it suggests the way things typically are but not how they should be or could be. Even the most ardent supporters of innate personality as stable have now changed their tune to suggest major life events and/or intensive intervention can result in meaningful changes to personality. Indeed given that in most of these cases the environment estimates are still sizeable I would think the results support intensive intervention rather than genetic determinism :dunno:
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Re: Is your personality based on genetics?

#11  Postby Tyrannical » Jun 17, 2010 8:37 am

Lazar wrote:I don't think it suggests this Tyrannical. I think it suggests the way things typically are but not how they should be or could be. Even the most ardent supporters of innate personality as stable have now changed their tune to suggest major life events and/or intensive intervention can result in meaningful changes to personality. Indeed given that in most of these cases the environment estimates are still sizeable I would think the results support intensive intervention rather than genetic determinism :dunno:


But intelligence seems almost exclusively nature based once adulthood is reached. It would seem that "special education" for the slow students is a waste of money and time.

You also have to wonder how much money we spend trying to correct social issues that may have a sizable cause rooted in genetics. Recognizing what you can and can not change could result in huge financial savings, but it could also impact certain professions greatly. Maybe to the point where they are willing to twist results to protect their livelihood?
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Re: Is your personality based on genetics?

#12  Postby endless psych » Jun 17, 2010 8:43 am

Tyrannical wrote:But intelligence seems almost exclusively nature based once adulthood is reached. It would seem that "special education" for the slow students is a waste of money and time.


You're conflating intelligence and the acquisition of knowledge.
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Re: Is your personality based on genetics?

#13  Postby Lazar » Jun 17, 2010 8:51 am

:this:

also even at 12% that is a lot to play with. I am genuinely happy if I find a process in my own research that accounts for that much variance. Again it should be kept in mind that there are moderators at play that can lead to different results. For instance there is research which suggests environment plays a much larger role in disadvantaged groups than it does in high to middle-class groups. Likewise in relation to special education I think the goal is to help individuals reach their potential and take advantage of the variance that is available for improvement. Indeed, special education is probably a difficult example as it is not only genetic disorders but environmental ones, and yet in these cases the environmental damage caused by a variety of causes maybe more difficult to intervene in than genetic based disabilities. Then there are also other problems we have no idea whether they are genetic or not.

I agree that it is important to take the results seriously but given the importance for policy here I think it is also central to understand the role that moderators play and also not to underplay how meaningful even small amounts of variance can play.

You also have to wonder how much money we spend trying to correct social issues that may have a sizable cause rooted in genetics. Recognizing what you can and can not change could result in huge financial savings, but it could also impact certain professions greatly. Maybe to the point where they are willing to twist results to protect their livelihood?


The possibility is there sure but this also ensures strong and robust critical reviews. Indeed some are now starting to question the methodology used to calculate the percentage of variance ascribed to different causes and such critics are more likely than not to strengthen the methodology and as a consequence the accuracy of the results.
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Re: Is your personality based on genetics?

#14  Postby Tyrannical » Jun 17, 2010 9:00 am

endless psych wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:But intelligence seems almost exclusively nature based once adulthood is reached. It would seem that "special education" for the slow students is a waste of money and time.


You're conflating intelligence and the acquisition of knowledge.


:think: Hmmm, do you think? The PDF file quite clearly said intelligence, though I can see your point that special education could be seen as acquisition of knowledge. But then again, there is a correlation between IQ and ability to learn.
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Re: Is your personality based on genetics?

#15  Postby aspire1670 » Jun 17, 2010 9:20 am

Tyrannical wrote:
endless psych wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:But intelligence seems almost exclusively nature based once adulthood is reached. It would seem that "special education" for the slow students is a waste of money and time.


You're conflating intelligence and the acquisition of knowledge.


:think: Hmmm, do you think? The PDF file quite clearly said intelligence, though I can see your point that special education could be seen as acquisition of knowledge. But then again, there is a correlation between IQ and ability to learn.


There is indeed and your posts frequently demonstrate this. Do you think there might also be a correlation between IQ and "nature" and how are you defining "nature"?
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Re: Is your personality based on genetics?

#16  Postby Doubtdispelled » Jun 17, 2010 9:36 am

:fly:
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Re: Is your personality based on genetics?

#17  Postby Lazar » Jun 17, 2010 9:40 am

aspire1670 wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:
endless psych wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:But intelligence seems almost exclusively nature based once adulthood is reached. It would seem that "special education" for the slow students is a waste of money and time.


You're conflating intelligence and the acquisition of knowledge.


:think: Hmmm, do you think? The PDF file quite clearly said intelligence, though I can see your point that special education could be seen as acquisition of knowledge. But then again, there is a correlation between IQ and ability to learn.


There is indeed and your posts frequently demonstrate this. Do you think there might also be a correlation between IQ and "nature" and how are you defining "nature"?



Lazar wrote:

You can choose to be in the discussion or not but lets keep personalizations out of it. :thumbup:
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Re: Is your personality based on genetics?

#18  Postby endless psych » Jun 17, 2010 9:42 am

Tyrannical wrote: :think: Hmmm, do you think? The PDF file quite clearly said intelligence, though I can see your point that special education could be seen as acquisition of knowledge. But then again, there is a correlation between IQ and ability to learn.


Well it used IQ as a measure of intelligence and IQ is (at best) a proxy for intelligence and at worst a predictor of academic achievement. The skills that IQ tests purport to measure may or may not provide a real picture of "intelligence" but my feeling is that they probably also measure, to an extent, access to education and the like.

Which is why books like the Bell Curve give the erroneous impression that people of different races have different levels of "intelligence" when really what it probably shows is that people from different races have access to different education systems.
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Re: Is your personality based on genetics?

#19  Postby HughMcB » Jun 17, 2010 1:41 pm

:coffee:
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Re: Is your personality based on genetics?

#20  Postby Tyrannical » Jun 17, 2010 2:19 pm

Lazar wrote:

also even at 12% that is a lot to play with. I am genuinely happy if I find a process in my own research that accounts for that much variance. Again it should be kept in mind that there are moderators at play that can lead to different results. For instance there is research which suggests environment plays a much larger role in disadvantaged groups than it does in high to middle-class groups. Likewise in relation to special education I think the goal is to help individuals reach their potential and take advantage of the variance that is available for improvement. Indeed, special education is probably a difficult example as it is not only genetic disorders but environmental ones, and yet in these cases the environmental damage caused by a variety of causes maybe more difficult to intervene in than genetic based disabilities. Then there are also other problems we have no idea whether they are genetic or not.

I agree that it is important to take the results seriously but given the importance for policy here I think it is also central to understand the role that moderators play and also not to underplay how meaningful even small amounts of variance can play.


I think part of the problem is not identifying what aspects are genetic and that you can't change. Policies like "No Child Left Behind" are doomed to failure because some children just aren't smart enough to keep up. Not only is it a huge waste of resources in trying, it is incredibly frustrating for the child also. Some people don't have the intelligence to progress past an 8th grade education. But that doesn't mean they can't be made productive members of society. They just probably shouldn't vote or be allowed to reproduce :P

Then you have the real problems, those that are anti-social and will always be anti-social. We spend too much time and money trying to change what we can not. If we could only identify them and remove them from society before they cause great harm. Sure if they commit a couple of murders or robberies they go to prison, but it would be nice if we could identify them before they commit major crimes. Then we could spend our resources solely on protecting society from them instead of the unachievable rehabilitation.
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