Life After Death (?)

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Life After Death (?)

#1  Postby Passer » Aug 26, 2016 10:11 am

Have quantum physicists recently discovered there might be 'life' of sorts after death?

Serious question. I heard that they'd detected some form of consciousness after the heart/brain had stopped functioning. I have no more details other than it's apparently a recent discovery and being taken seriously in scientific circles.

Has anyone heard anything or is it nonsense?

EDIT: For example (August 2016): http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/german- ... fter-death

I know the above site also has stories like "YOKO ONO: “I HAD AN AFFAIR WITH HILLARY CLINTON IN THE ’70S” (I think they missed out on about 12 exclamation marks there) but it's an example of the kind of thing I'm on about.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ntist.html

Yup, the Dailymail, but again, it's another example

EDIT: It seems to originate from a Robert Lanza
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Re: Life After Death (?)

#2  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Aug 26, 2016 10:20 am

Do you have any credible sources for this claim?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Life After Death (?)

#3  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Aug 26, 2016 10:21 am

http://badsatiretoday.com/german-scientists-prove-life-after-death/

Debunked: German Scientists Prove Life After Death
Four days ago, an article appeared online claiming that German scientists had scientifically proven that life exists after death. This article is fiction.
Debunked

The above-mentioned article appeared on the World News Daily Report website. A disclaimer on the site states, “All news articles contained within worldnewsdailyreport.com are fiction, and presumably fake news”, yet the recount continues to disperse through Twitter.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Life After Death (?)

#4  Postby Passer » Aug 26, 2016 10:25 am

I have no credible sources, at least not presently. I asked on this website because I figured if there was any place that new what is what it would be this one

Starting to think it's nothing to be honest
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Re: Life After Death (?)

#5  Postby Fenrir » Aug 26, 2016 10:27 am

Ha.

Cool story bro.
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Re: Life After Death (?)

#6  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Aug 26, 2016 10:29 am

Passer wrote:I have no credible sources, at least not presently. I asked on this website because I figured if there was any place that new what is what it would be this one

Starting to think it's nothing to be honest

Well, though not being a guarantee, it's highly likely this would've been all over the news, except it wasn't.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Life After Death (?)

#7  Postby Passer » Aug 26, 2016 10:47 am

Exactly what I was thinking
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Re: Life After Death (?)

#8  Postby monkeyboy » Aug 26, 2016 11:00 am

Strange how the ones that turn out to be bollocks don't make it onto the mainstream news stories. It's almost like they employ...............researchers or something to filter through the crap. Unless they're just part of the big conspiracy to keep the cures for cancer down so the big pharma conspiracy rule the world.
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Re: Life After Death (?)

#9  Postby chairman bill » Aug 26, 2016 11:06 am

If there's consciousness, there isn't death. The brain will carry on firing neurons even though the heart has stopped, and the person has been 'dead' for some time. Being dead is a process (as well as a state), one that is sometimes reversible - if you're quick - but usually isn't. When brain activity has finally stopped, there is no consciousness. There is no life after death, apart from worms eating you, then others eating the ducks etc. They even wrote a song about it; On Ilkley Moor bah't 'at.
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Re: Life After Death (?)

#10  Postby monkeyboy » Aug 26, 2016 11:42 am

There's always that point where someone is effectively dead before every last neurone has stopped firing. It's pretty much down to where you draw the line. Didn't they do some sort of experimenting on decapitated heads after being guillotined? They might have detected some brain activity there but those people were dead. A team of the world's best surgeons weren't putting them back together again. Doesn't mean that there was life after death though, just that death takes a bit longer than flicking a light switch off to complete.
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Re: Life After Death (?)

#11  Postby mindhack » Aug 26, 2016 12:20 pm

In a strict biological sense death is the end of a life, but in a more social way there can be "life" after death as long as there are others remembering you.
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Re: Life After Death (?)

#12  Postby ScholasticSpastic » Aug 26, 2016 5:17 pm

I think this thread belongs in the General Debunking subforum.
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Re: Life After Death (?)

#13  Postby jamest » Aug 26, 2016 5:29 pm

Passer wrote:I heard that they'd detected some form of consciousness after the heart/brain had stopped functioning.

How would that even be possible if consciousness is deemed to be a functioning brain?

If consciousness is something other than the material brain, then it would not in any case be detectable by scientists using instruments to detect material events.
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Re: Life After Death (?)

#14  Postby jamest » Aug 26, 2016 5:36 pm

ScholasticSpastic wrote:I think this thread belongs in the General Debunking subforum.

There's nothing to debunk (see my last post). The issue of life/consciousness after death is not something science can ever be involved within, for the very suggestion that life/consciousness can exist after the body/brain stops functioning would necessitate that life/consciousness be defined in terms other than a functioning brain/body.
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Re: Life After Death (?)

#15  Postby tuco » Aug 26, 2016 5:39 pm

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Re: Life After Death (?)

#16  Postby ScholasticSpastic » Aug 26, 2016 6:37 pm

jamest wrote:
ScholasticSpastic wrote:I think this thread belongs in the General Debunking subforum.

There's nothing to debunk (see my last post). The issue of life/consciousness after death is not something science can ever be involved within, for the very suggestion that life/consciousness can exist after the body/brain stops functioning would necessitate that life/consciousness be defined in terms other than a functioning brain/body.

While I agree that there's nothing to debunk (as there isn't such a thing as life after death) I disagree with the rest of your post. If there is something that effects the matter of a human body, that something can be measured. It doesn't matter whether that something is material or not. If it causes changes in material things, it isn't beyond the purview of science. If it doesn't cause changes in material things, it cannot have had anything to do with animating a physical body because there's no way it could have interacted with the body.

The only way we make things work with a scientifically unavailable afterlife is if we decide that bodies are, themselves, immaterial. But then we have to chuck modern medicine out the window. Enjoy your homeopathic vaccines.... far away from me.
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Re: Life After Death (?)

#17  Postby jamest » Aug 26, 2016 7:23 pm

ScholasticSpastic wrote:
jamest wrote:The issue of life/consciousness after death is not something science can ever be involved within, for the very suggestion that life/consciousness can exist after the body/brain stops functioning would necessitate that life/consciousness be defined in terms other than a functioning brain/body.

If there is something that effects the matter of a human body, that something can be measured. It doesn't matter whether that something is material or not.

The possibility of life after death does not entail dualism, but let's ignore that issue. As a fact, IF there is life after the death of the brain/body, then life is NOT that brain/body. So anything measurable within the brain/body would not be indicative of said life. And since we are discussing the possibility of life AFTER the brain/body has ceased to function, then there would be no functioning event to measure anyway.

The bottom line is that science can only measure material occurrences, so IF life is distinct to those occurrences within the brain/body, then science isn't really measuring 'life' anyway.


If it causes changes in material things, it isn't beyond the purview of science. If it doesn't cause changes in material things, it cannot have had anything to do with animating a physical body because there's no way it could have interacted with the body.

You could say that life has agency, but that conclusion would have arisen from reason not a tape-measure. What else could you say about life in terms of physical measurements if it were [by definition] completely disassociated from the material body? Nothing.


The only way we make things work with a scientifically unavailable afterlife is if we decide that bodies are, themselves, immaterial. But then we have to chuck modern medicine out the window. Enjoy your homeopathic vaccines.... far away from me.

The consequence of deciding that bodies are not material does not entail that they themselves are an immaterial substance. It may well be, as per my own philosophy, that they are nothing but an experience interpreted from the constituents of experience (the sensations/qualia for instance).
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Re: Life After Death (?)

#18  Postby ScholasticSpastic » Aug 26, 2016 7:41 pm

jamest wrote:
You could say that life has agency, but that conclusion would have arisen from reason not a tape-measure. What else could you say about life in terms of physical measurements if it were [by definition] completely disassociated from the material body? Nothing.

Your word salad is broken, jamest. I value you as a member of this forum, and I appreciate that you try really hard to convey your ideas, even though you are not, in fact, a special little snowflake. But, the thing is, if life were completely disassociated from the material body, the material body would be dead. :lol:

Oh, and I also don't think we can say that life has agency. There are a lot of living things which we don't say have agency. If they have life, but they don't have agency, then it follows that life doesn't have agency. Unless you'd like to start a cyanobacteria rights movement. I would respect and support that. Because I like ridiculous things.
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Re: Life After Death (?)

#19  Postby jamest » Aug 26, 2016 8:41 pm

ScholasticSpastic wrote:
jamest wrote:
You could say that life has agency, but that conclusion would have arisen from reason not a tape-measure. What else could you say about life in terms of physical measurements if it were [by definition] completely disassociated from the material body? Nothing.

Your word salad is broken, jamest. I value you as a member of this forum, and I appreciate that you try really hard to convey your ideas, even though you are not, in fact, a special little snowflake. But, the thing is, if life were completely disassociated from the material body, the material body would be dead. :lol:

The parameters of the discussion dictate the terms in which we can talk. Hence, IF life continues after the demise of the body, then life IS completely disassociated from said body within the context of it not being that body. The primary issue here, the focal point of this discussion, is being. So that is the context in which I used the word 'disassociated' there. I did not imply that there is no causal relationship or association whatsoever between the body and life - your error was to overlook the pertinent context in which I used the word. Wake up, squire!

Oh, and I also don't think we can say that life has agency.

We can IF there is life after death [of the body] yet see that said life has affected that body.

There are a lot of living things which we don't say have agency.

I guess that hinges upon how one wants to define life. Versions of that are legion (even within the scientific community itself) and I can't be bothered with that here, except to say that my version is almost certainly different to yours.
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Re: Life After Death (?)

#20  Postby ScholasticSpastic » Aug 26, 2016 9:05 pm

jamest wrote: Hence, IF life continues after the demise of the body, then life IS completely disassociated from said body within the context of it not being that body.

Your if-then statement is incorrect, though. If life is completely dissociated from a body, the body is dead. An entity can not be another entity without being completely dissociated from that entity. Given the definitions of the words you are using, you cannot say the things you are saying. If you would like to continue this discussion in a different language with different words, that would be one possible work-around for your problem. Or you may try re-stating the idea you're trying to express using words which do not contradict what you are trying to say.

It's up to you. And whichever you choose, you're just the cutest widdle idealist what ever had a schoogy-woogy and I forum-love you to bits. And shit.
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