Morbid Jealousy

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Morbid Jealousy

#1  Postby Adco » Nov 18, 2010 9:12 am

Hi people. Haven't been on this site for months now. I remembered all the good knowledge available from all you learned folk and decided to post this topic.

Is morbid jealousy treatable or curable? Is it a disorder? I am looking for any help I can get on the subject.

Someone please comment or direct me to some help.

Thanks
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Re: Morbid Jealousy

#2  Postby natselrox » Nov 18, 2010 9:20 am

I remember an fMRI study that showed activation of the ACC on exposure to envy-evoking stimuli and the activation of Ventral striatum on exposure to schadenfreude-evoking stimuli and that these two are correlated in an individual.

O, beware, my lord, of jealousy;
It is the green-ey'd monster, which doth mock
The meat it feeds on.



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Re: Morbid Jealousy

#3  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Nov 18, 2010 9:27 am

First time I've ever heard of it. From a quick read it seems to be related to schizophrenia and delusional disorders. I imagine that treatment would be similar. I wouldn't recommend entering relationships if you are a sufferer and stick to porn (or romance novels).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morbid_jealousy
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Re: Morbid Jealousy

#4  Postby natselrox » Nov 18, 2010 9:30 am

From the wiki: "Morbid jealousy (also known as delusional jealousy, or Othello syndrome) is a psychiatric disorder in which a person holds a delusional belief that their spouse or sexual partner is being unfaithful."

So it refers to spousal jealousy only. Interesting. Does it actually exist?
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Re: Morbid Jealousy

#5  Postby Adco » Nov 18, 2010 9:33 am

natselrox wrote:From the wiki: "Morbid jealousy (also known as delusional jealousy, or Othello syndrome) is a psychiatric disorder in which a person holds a delusional belief that their spouse or sexual partner is being unfaithful."

So it refers to spousal jealousy only. Interesting. Does it actually exist?

It exists. My wife has all the symptoms as described in Wiki and other internet sites. Very real for her and very scary for me.
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Re: Morbid Jealousy

#6  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Nov 18, 2010 9:35 am

It appears so. I imagine it is related all sexual jealousy, not just spousal.
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Re: Morbid Jealousy

#7  Postby natselrox » Nov 18, 2010 9:36 am

Behavioural therapy should be the only way out. Therapeutic interventions are not there yet.
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Re: Morbid Jealousy

#8  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Nov 18, 2010 9:37 am

Adco wrote:
natselrox wrote:From the wiki: "Morbid jealousy (also known as delusional jealousy, or Othello syndrome) is a psychiatric disorder in which a person holds a delusional belief that their spouse or sexual partner is being unfaithful."

So it refers to spousal jealousy only. Interesting. Does it actually exist?

It exists. My wife has all the symptoms as described in Wiki and other internet sites. Very real for her and very scary for me.


The only advice I could give for you is get her diagnosed, treated and on medication. This doesn't sound like a therapy fixer to me.
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Re: Morbid Jealousy

#9  Postby Adco » Nov 18, 2010 9:44 am

CdesignProponentsist wrote:
Adco wrote:
natselrox wrote:From the wiki: "Morbid jealousy (also known as delusional jealousy, or Othello syndrome) is a psychiatric disorder in which a person holds a delusional belief that their spouse or sexual partner is being unfaithful."

So it refers to spousal jealousy only. Interesting. Does it actually exist?

It exists. My wife has all the symptoms as described in Wiki and other internet sites. Very real for her and very scary for me.


The only advice I could give for you is get her diagnosed, treated and on medication. This doesn't sound like a therapy fixer to me.

There are a number of difficulties involved. Morbid jealousy is also know as Delusional jealousy or "Othello Syndrome". When someone is deluded, and we all know about religious delusions, the person is totaly convinced of their beliefs and it is difficult to change that mind set.

Try reasoning with someone who is convinced that you have been sleeping with other woman and has even had blood tests done to check if they have contracted an STD. Not very easy.
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Re: Morbid Jealousy

#10  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Nov 18, 2010 10:18 am

Adco wrote:
CdesignProponentsist wrote:
Adco wrote:
It exists. My wife has all the symptoms as described in Wiki and other internet sites. Very real for her and very scary for me.


The only advice I could give for you is get her diagnosed, treated and on medication. This doesn't sound like a therapy fixer to me.

There are a number of difficulties involved. Morbid jealousy is also know as Delusional jealousy or "Othello Syndrome". When someone is deluded, and we all know about religious delusions, the person is totaly convinced of their beliefs and it is difficult to change that mind set.

Try reasoning with someone who is convinced that you have been sleeping with other woman and has even had blood tests done to check if they have contracted an STD. Not very easy.


I think the difficulties are inevitable. If you think she would not go for it then I would suggest going to a psychiatrist yourself for advice. This isn't really the proper place for advice for serious medical/psychological consultation.
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Re: Morbid Jealousy

#11  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Nov 18, 2010 10:23 am

natselrox wrote:Behavioural therapy should be the only way out. Therapeutic interventions are not there yet.


Morbid jealousy appears to be a psychosis. Behavioral therapy would not be an option in this case. Psychosis must be medicated. Again, seek a doctor's opinion.
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Re: Morbid Jealousy

#12  Postby Adco » Nov 18, 2010 10:34 am

CdesignProponentsist wrote:I think the difficulties are inevitable. If you think she would not go for it then I would suggest going to a psychiatrist yourself for advice. This isn't really the proper place for advice for serious medical/psychological consultation.

I am seeing a clinical psycologist at the moment to help me cope with the problem. I do realise that this is not the place for serious advise. I was hoping that someone out there has had a similar situation and was prepared to discuss it with me.
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Re: Morbid Jealousy

#13  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Nov 18, 2010 10:47 am

Adco wrote:
CdesignProponentsist wrote:I think the difficulties are inevitable. If you think she would not go for it then I would suggest going to a psychiatrist yourself for advice. This isn't really the proper place for advice for serious medical/psychological consultation.

I am seeing a clinical psycologist at the moment to help me cope with the problem. I do realise that this is not the place for serious advise. I was hoping that someone out there has had a similar situation and was prepared to discuss it with me.


Well good luck. I hope you get this worked out.
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Re: Morbid Jealousy

#14  Postby Mr.Samsa » Nov 18, 2010 11:14 pm

CdesignProponentsist wrote:
natselrox wrote:Behavioural therapy should be the only way out. Therapeutic interventions are not there yet.


Morbid jealousy appears to be a psychosis. Behavioral therapy would not be an option in this case. Psychosis must be medicated. Again, seek a doctor's opinion.


Why do you say that? Given the symptoms, it's probably inevitable that someone who suffers from it will at least require cognitive behavioral therapy to change their unhealthy thought patterns into something more stable and realistic, and then the question of whether it requires medication or not depends on whether it has a biological cause or an environmental one. Medication isn't always necessary for psychosis, although it can be useful to reduce extreme symptoms before beginning a more effective therapy.
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Re: Morbid Jealousy

#15  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Nov 19, 2010 12:10 am

Mr.Samsa wrote:
CdesignProponentsist wrote:
natselrox wrote:Behavioural therapy should be the only way out. Therapeutic interventions are not there yet.


Morbid jealousy appears to be a psychosis. Behavioral therapy would not be an option in this case. Psychosis must be medicated. Again, seek a doctor's opinion.


Why do you say that? Given the symptoms, it's probably inevitable that someone who suffers from it will at least require cognitive behavioral therapy to change their unhealthy thought patterns into something more stable and realistic, and then the question of whether it requires medication or not depends on whether it has a biological cause or an environmental one. Medication isn't always necessary for psychosis, although it can be useful to reduce extreme symptoms before beginning a more effective therapy.


In my experience, delusional psychosis is rarely environmental and almost always requires medication. Cognitive behavior therapy is secondary to and rarely works without medication and is usually to keep them ON the medication. Delusions are a powerful distortion of your core beliefs as a result of abnormal brain function. The chemistry of the brain needs to be managed first.
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Re: Morbid Jealousy

#16  Postby Mr.Samsa » Nov 19, 2010 1:31 am

CdesignProponentsist wrote:In my experience, delusional psychosis is rarely environmental and almost always requires medication. Cognitive behavior therapy is secondary to and rarely works without medication and is usually to keep them ON the medication. Delusions are a powerful distortion of your core beliefs as a result of abnormal brain function. The chemistry of the brain needs to be managed first.


Professional experience?

My point was just that given the thought patterns that would be formed from such behaviors, even if medication alleviated some or most of the problems, there will probably still be some issues that need to be dealt with. The other issue is that it's difficult to tease apart morbid jealousy from obsessional jealousy (and those two from "normal" jealousy) and currently I don't think there are any guidelines to be able to do that, so finding the cause is not terribly easy as morbid jealousy (as a psychosis) would probably need medication, whereas obsessional jealousy would need CBT (and perhaps medication to help the process). And delusions aren't necessarily caused by abnormal brain function, or at least the last time I read up on the topic there will still a number of different approaches to the nature of delusions..
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Re: Morbid Jealousy

#17  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Nov 19, 2010 2:20 am

Mr.Samsa wrote:
CdesignProponentsist wrote:In my experience, delusional psychosis is rarely environmental and almost always requires medication. Cognitive behavior therapy is secondary to and rarely works without medication and is usually to keep them ON the medication. Delusions are a powerful distortion of your core beliefs as a result of abnormal brain function. The chemistry of the brain needs to be managed first.


Professional experience?


My mother worked in the mental heath industry.

The other issue is that it's difficult to tease apart morbid jealousy from obsessional jealousy (and those two from "normal" jealousy)


I absolutely agree. Which is why I recommend seeking professional advice.
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Re: Morbid Jealousy

#18  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Nov 19, 2010 2:26 am

Mr.Samsa wrote: And delusions aren't necessarily caused by abnormal brain function, or at least the last time I read up on the topic there will still a number of different approaches to the nature of delusions..


You are absolutely right. I was referring to psychotic delusions however. I should have been specific.
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Re: Morbid Jealousy

#19  Postby Mr.Samsa » Nov 19, 2010 2:44 am

CdesignProponentsist wrote:
The other issue is that it's difficult to tease apart morbid jealousy from obsessional jealousy (and those two from "normal" jealousy)


I absolutely agree. Which is why I recommend seeking professional advice.


:nod: Definitely.

CdesignProponentsist wrote:
Mr.Samsa wrote: And delusions aren't necessarily caused by abnormal brain function, or at least the last time I read up on the topic there will still a number of different approaches to the nature of delusions..


You are absolutely right. I was referring to psychotic delusions however. I should have been specific.


Fair enough, but psychotic disorders don't necessarily have to be treated with medication, and medication isn't always the best treatment for all forms of psychoses. More specifically, morbid jealousy isn't necessarily a symptom of psychosis. Although this is debatable as the definitions of delusions and psychosis are kind of circular.

The important thing to remember is that the idea that mental disorders or neurological issues are caused by "chemical imbalances" (or similarly phrased cliches) is overly simplistic and misses the fact that our brain chemistry is physically altered by the way we think and behave. Hence, change the way you think and you can significantly alter your brain chemistry - you can even permanently change the structures in your brain. This is the problem with research which finds things like "depression is caused by a reduction in chemical X"; we have no idea which way causality is working. Are they depressed because they are low in a particular brain chemical, or is the brain chemical low because they are depressed? The answer is that it can be either, or both.
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Re: Morbid Jealousy

#20  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Nov 19, 2010 3:04 am

Mr.Samsa wrote:More specifically, morbid jealousy isn't necessarily a symptom of psychosis.


Morbid jealousy IS a psychosis. Morbidity indicates disease. Abnormal functioning of the brain caused by disease is psychosis.
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