OCD chat

Split from The_Piper's Homemaking thread

Studies of mental functions, behaviors and the nervous system.

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OCD chat

#1  Postby The_Piper » Dec 23, 2014 1:05 pm

Tupperware is the good stuff of the plastic food container world.
I use old ones to store stuff in besides food. I call them ocd's now, because a cousin identified and diagnosed me with it because of those, and my shelving, and the bigger totes, boxes, jars, etc. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Which, while that made me realize I do in fact have ocd, it's not because of the containers, that's just me being resourceful. :snooty:
I have lots of stuff outside of containers too. It's probably the stuff that's the ocd. :shifty: In seriousness, one trait that's pretty much for certain is my frequent hand washing. The day it necessitated a trip to a dermatologist, the cousin's diagnosis was secured. But I have reasons for that too, itchy-eye allergies from contaminated surfaces....and germs. :shifty: :tongue: /Off Topic
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Re: The Culinary and Homemaking 101 land of discovery thread

#2  Postby Blip » Dec 23, 2014 1:21 pm

Hey, one man's OCD is another man's neat as far as I'm concerned. It was only quite recently that I discovered that not everyone makes sure that the labels on tins or bottles face forwards in a regular manner.

It makes perfect sense to me - you can see at a glance what's on the shelf :shifty:
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Re: The Culinary and Homemaking 101 land of discovery thread

#3  Postby Scot Dutchy » Dec 23, 2014 1:44 pm

Blip wrote:Hey, one man's OCD is another man's neat as far as I'm concerned. It was only quite recently that I discovered that not everyone makes sure that the labels on tins or bottles face forwards in a regular manner.

It makes perfect sense to me - you can see at a glance what's on the shelf :shifty:


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Re: The Culinary and Homemaking 101 land of discovery thread

#4  Postby The_Metatron » Dec 23, 2014 2:50 pm

Blip wrote:Hey, one man's OCD is another man's neat as far as I'm concerned. It was only quite recently that I discovered that not everyone makes sure that the labels on tins or bottles face forwards in a regular manner.

It makes perfect sense to me - you can see at a glance what's on the shelf :shifty:

At all times.


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Re: The Culinary and Homemaking 101 land of discovery thread

#5  Postby The_Piper » Dec 23, 2014 2:55 pm

Blip wrote:Hey, one man's OCD is another man's neat as far as I'm concerned. It was only quite recently that I discovered that not everyone makes sure that the labels on tins or bottles face forwards in a regular manner.

It makes perfect sense to me - you can see at a glance what's on the shelf :shifty:

:lol:
I don't do that, my cupboards and fridge are an absolute mess. I would like to be neat, but I've picked up so many "treasures" that I had to put up shelving and stuff, then I filled the house again!! And porch, and sheds, and camper, and old vehicles. But even that has a purpose. I resell stuff, it's gonna make me money. Money to buy more, and I buy a lot more than I sell. :tongue:
One man's trash is another man's treasure, and like you say one man's OCD is another man's crazy. Oh wait a minute, neat. :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Culinary and Homemaking 101 land of discovery thread

#6  Postby Fallible » Dec 23, 2014 7:37 pm

Blip wrote:Hey, one man's OCD is another man's neat as far as I'm concerned. It was only quite recently that I discovered that not everyone makes sure that the labels on tins or bottles face forwards in a regular manner.

It makes perfect sense to me - you can see at a glance what's on the shelf :shifty:


OCD is a debilitating actual condition, and is no one's 'neat'.
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Re: The Culinary and Homemaking 101 land of discovery thread

#7  Postby Fallible » Jan 01, 2015 9:08 pm

I realise this isn't on topic , but I really feel i have to say this - it's OCD if one's obsessions or compulsions are distressing and/or impact negatively on day to day life. Without that, there's no diagnosis. Arranging your cans the same way isn't OCD of any kind. This kind of thing irritates the hell out of me as a 30 plus years sufferer. If you're arranging your cans then arranging them again and again and then checking them again and again and as a result are late for work or appointments or unable to leave the house, or if when away from the cans you're not able to stop worrying over whether all the cans are facing the right way and what might happen as a result, then you can talk about OCD. Talking about it in this 'isn't it jolly funny this little quirk I have' way, or claiming that 'one man's OCD is another man's neat' is not only ignorant and wrong, it is also incredibly insulting as it belittles the agony that so many people go through. Sorry, I'm not trying to have an argument, but I felt I had to say it, I feel people need to know.
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Re: The Culinary and Homemaking 101 land of discovery thread

#8  Postby The_Piper » Jan 02, 2015 11:24 am

:hugs:
I'm not trying to argue in this post either, I'm just talking.
I've read that many adults are aware that their compulsions are unreasonable, yet can't easily stop them. That seems to be true in experience as well. The Mayo clinic says something to that effect, linked below.
I'm one of those people.
It's like quitting smoking. I talk and talk about not buying any more crap for now, and making more space, but I went out New Year's Eve, hunted for, and found more crap!
That after checking to make sure my heat was off, water off, electricity off, making sure I had my keys, medicine, wallet, extra food and water, warm clothes, camera, extra camera battery and memory cards, etc. The list goes on. I find it funny and laugh at myself, but I still feel the need do it. And on my way out of the driveway, running 15 minutes late, I have to go back in the house for something (not germane to my trip) because I forgot it and apparently must bring it.
The one thing I'm confidently self-diagnosing ocd on, though, is the hand-washing. I have to use prescription steroids daily + Cera Ve to keep them from peeling any more than they do. The skin can't hold much moisture. 1st on the list of my treatment plan is "wash hands less". I've had this condition for as long as I can remember, both the hand-washing and the dry skin.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond ... n-20027827
Obsessive-compulsive disorder symptoms usually include both obsessions and compulsions. But it's also possible to have only obsession symptoms or only compulsion symptoms. About one-third of people with OCD also have a disorder that includes sudden, brief, intermittent movements or sounds (tics).

The brief sounds are not as funny. Well, maybe they are sometimes. :shifty:
I don''t know if Blip has actual ocd and I hope she doesn't, but I wouldn't minimize anyone's condition because mine is worse.
I've seen ocd in movies and documentaries, and while I do have what the Mayo clinic calls ocd, I'm not tortured by obsessions the way some are. That leads me to believe that there is probably a spectrum of ocd, from minor to major disruption, and I must be more towards minor disruption.
Thank The Ghost of Mr. Woodchuckles for that. :)
We could ask for this talk to be split into it's own thread if you want, it could be very interesting.
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Re: The Culinary and Homemaking 101 land of discovery thread

#9  Postby Fallible » Jan 02, 2015 1:00 pm

Yes, good idea to split it, I think. Yep there is a spectrum within OCD of severity of symptoms, but diagnosis in the first place still requires you to have discernible disruption or distress caused. Your hand washing is a good example - the resulting dermatitis is sore and uncomfortable, so it causes you disruption to your daily life - also you had to go and get it seen to. Your checking is something you can chuckle at, but it still causes you to run late and you feel you HAVE to do it anyway. It causes disruption, but you are compelled to do it. This still isn't in the same league as having a habit of arranging your cans all the same way because it helps you see what you've got in the cupboard. I wasn't really commenting on your posts, Fletch, it's just that I often see people using the term 'OCD' in a way which is frankly wrong, for example like it's just a case of being neat and tidy, and since on average it takes someone with the condition 10-15 years to seek help, partly because they're so ashamed of getting in a tizz about something which according to so many is simply a matter of being very neat or clean (also because they think they are going mad), I try to tackle these misconceptions where I see them. To reiterate - one man's OCD is every other man's OCD, because it's a disorder with diagnostic criteria of intrusive, often upsetting thoughts, compulsions and distress or disruption which must be present. It is never just another man's 'neat'.

Also, it may be that having compulsions makes you better at some kinds of job, but that does not turn the compulsion into an advantage to the individual. It's still a feeling that you HAVE to do something over and over again. Generally people with compulsions know there's something wrong with the way they think and behave. Compare these people with those who have OCPD for example, who think they are acting the right and rational way, and whose distress originates in other people reacting to their rigid hyper-focus on detail. They would be happy to zero in on minute details for hour after hour, and would only feel bad when they noticed they were not being included in social activities and work/personal relationships were becoming strained as a result, etc.

I have the hand washing thing too, and I also have needing to continually ask others for reassurance (eg. 'the doctor did say there was no change to her kidney, didn't he' to my husband over and over again even though I know the doctor did say that), counting to 32 in my head, counting syllables in the sentences I say before I say them, consciously counting my breaths, having the volume on the TV on an even number, having to go back and check the previous page of the book I'm reading to ensure that was a full stop not a comma, or a semi-colon not a colon, that I'd just seen, doing whatever activity I'm engaged in an even number of times, preferably a multiple of 10, before I can leave it and go out even if it means I will be late, saying 'take care have a good day' when US leaves the house because if I don't something bad will happen (if he then says something else and we exchange a few words I then have to say it again - it has to be the last thing I say), and several other things. As you can see, some of these are more intrusive than others, and as you say, these wax and wane and do not always cause the same amount of disruption or distress, but it's still always OCD. I have the intrusive thought (obsessive) - something will happen if I don't do x, y, z (I'm not always aware of this thought process) - so I must do x,y,z (compulsive) - and if I try to hold out, I just feel more and more discomfort/distress until I do it (disorder) - but a lot of the things I do do not have outward signs. No one would know I was doing them. They used to think there was a type of OCD called 'Pure O' which consisted of only the intrusive thoughts and no compulsions, but research is now showing that there are still compulsions, they're just internal and unobservable. The effect, however, is undiminished. Anyway, perhaps one of the mods will split this off for us. I'll let normal service resume until then. Sorry to disrupt your thread, Pipez. :hugs:
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Re: The Culinary and Homemaking 101 land of discovery thread

#10  Postby The_Piper » Jan 02, 2015 3:04 pm

Oh no, I brought up the ocd in the first place. This is meant to be anyone's thread, Darth sounded like he could use some help. But I guess he's sheltered from all of this by having a spouse? :nono: :lol:

I'll request a split and we can talk more about ocd in a new thread. :)
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Re: OCD chat

#11  Postby The_Metatron » Jan 02, 2015 11:10 pm

I suppose I could be said to be obsessive compulsive at times. I usually have a specific way of placing most everything, and have very well thought out reasons for doing so.

When I used to smoke, I had a triangular shaped bakelite ash tray that I used. The ashes went on one side of the hypotenuse (which was formed by the comb that would hold a lit cigarette), and I put the finished cigarattes on the other side, not all messy and randomly smashed, mind you. Instead, I would roll the ember off of the end of the cigarette, then stack the butts on the proper side of the ash tray, all facing the same way. The purpose for this exercise was to make it easier to clean the ashtray out when it was full.

I can think of dozens of similar examples around my house right now. Things that seem arbitrary, but actually are purposely thought out.

I am most structured with my tools. Most of my toolchest drawers are lined with closed cell foam, into which I have cut the shape of each tool that it will hold. It takes hours and hours to do this. The thing it prevents is looking for a goddamned 8mm combination wrench when I need one. I can walk up to my toolbox and have the exact tool (out of hundreds) in my hand an in use in seconds.

There is a secondary purpose to having everything in its well defined place. Very often, I am not really there when I put an object down that I am holding. I am likely thinking about the next problem. The result is that I have no picture in my mind of where I put down whatever it was I was holding. I wasn't there when I put it down, is the best way I know how to describe that. Having a place for everything prevents hours and hours of searching for shit.

This is what makes moving my household so goddamned stressful. For example, tonight, I need two C-clamps to repair a cracked bed rail. I have a perfectly clear picture in my mind of what toolbox holds those clamps. I can even envision the rest of its contents. But, I have no fucking idea where is that toolbox. Oh, it's in one of the packing boxes still in my garage, but it'll take me some time to pick through them to find it. I don't know where all of my shit is in my new house yet. Very uncomfortable.
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Re: OCD chat

#12  Postby Ironclad » Jan 03, 2015 1:53 am

Am I right or wrong in thinking that the goal is rarely achieved? 'Hard' obsessive compulsive behaviours seem to seek super-efficiency, yet the lengths some may go to ...etc
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Re: The Culinary and Homemaking 101 land of discovery thread

#13  Postby The_Piper » Jan 03, 2015 12:47 pm

Fallible wrote:Yes, good idea to split it, I think. Yep there is a spectrum within OCD of severity of symptoms, but diagnosis in the first place still requires you to have discernible disruption or distress caused. Your hand washing is a good example - the resulting dermatitis is sore and uncomfortable, so it causes you disruption to your daily life - also you had to go and get it seen to. Your checking is something you can chuckle at, but it still causes you to run late and you feel you HAVE to do it anyway. It causes disruption, but you are compelled to do it. This still isn't in the same league as having a habit of arranging your cans all the same way because it helps you see what you've got in the cupboard. I wasn't really commenting on your posts, Fletch, it's just that I often see people using the term 'OCD' in a way which is frankly wrong, for example like it's just a case of being neat and tidy, and since on average it takes someone with the condition 10-15 years to seek help, partly because they're so ashamed of getting in a tizz about something which according to so many is simply a matter of being very neat or clean (also because they think they are going mad), I try to tackle these misconceptions where I see them. To reiterate - one man's OCD is every other man's OCD, because it's a disorder with diagnostic criteria of intrusive, often upsetting thoughts, compulsions and distress or disruption which must be present. It is never just another man's 'neat'.

Also, it may be that having compulsions makes you better at some kinds of job, but that does not turn the compulsion into an advantage to the individual. It's still a feeling that you HAVE to do something over and over again. Generally people with compulsions know there's something wrong with the way they think and behave. Compare these people with those who have OCPD for example, who think they are acting the right and rational way, and whose distress originates in other people reacting to their rigid hyper-focus on detail. They would be happy to zero in on minute details for hour after hour, and would only feel bad when they noticed they were not being included in social activities and work/personal relationships were becoming strained as a result, etc.

I have the hand washing thing too, and I also have needing to continually ask others for reassurance (eg. 'the doctor did say there was no change to her kidney, didn't he' to my husband over and over again even though I know the doctor did say that), counting to 32 in my head, counting syllables in the sentences I say before I say them, consciously counting my breaths, having the volume on the TV on an even number, having to go back and check the previous page of the book I'm reading to ensure that was a full stop not a comma, or a semi-colon not a colon, that I'd just seen, doing whatever activity I'm engaged in an even number of times, preferably a multiple of 10, before I can leave it and go out even if it means I will be late, saying 'take care have a good day' when US leaves the house because if I don't something bad will happen (if he then says something else and we exchange a few words I then have to say it again - it has to be the last thing I say), and several other things. As you can see, some of these are more intrusive than others, and as you say, these wax and wane and do not always cause the same amount of disruption or distress, but it's still always OCD. I have the intrusive thought (obsessive) - something will happen if I don't do x, y, z (I'm not always aware of this thought process) - so I must do x,y,z (compulsive) - and if I try to hold out, I just feel more and more discomfort/distress until I do it (disorder) - but a lot of the things I do do not have outward signs. No one would know I was doing them. They used to think there was a type of OCD called 'Pure O' which consisted of only the intrusive thoughts and no compulsions, but research is now showing that there are still compulsions, they're just internal and unobservable. The effect, however, is undiminished. Anyway, perhaps one of the mods will split this off for us. I'll let normal service resume until then. Sorry to disrupt your thread, Pipez. :hugs:

That sounds like a lot of obsessions compared to me, but I'm realizing the last couple of days that my symptoms are actually worse than I really thought about. It doesn't make me feel bad, I'm still the same me. :)
Short noises, like funny squeaks with my lips or cheek, even saying short, sometimes profane, phrases. I'm doing it to amuse myself at home alone when I'm working (like people sing to themselves I guess). Often times I don't even think about it, and just make the noise. I wasn't aware that was part of OCD until reading the Mayo clinic list of symptoms a couple days ago. I don't think it's like Tourette's, because I don't do it in public or around other people, it's voluntary. Perhaps it's just my quirky sense of humor. There's no audience out here but me and Stubby. :lol:
I remember growing up my sister used to whistle a quick note when she was reading or concentrating. The same quick note, for years. She didn't seem to be OCD at all though, to me.
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Re: OCD chat

#14  Postby Fallible » Jan 03, 2015 12:55 pm

Incidentally, Tourettes and OCD are related, as are OCD and BDD (Body Dysmorphic Disorder). Or rather people with Tourettes often have OCD as well. Just my unqualified opinion, Pipez, but that doesn't seem like Tourettes to me either, because your noises and words aren't involuntary, you do them to amuse yourself.
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If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: OCD chat

#15  Postby DavidMcC » Jan 03, 2015 1:15 pm

Fallible wrote:
Blip wrote:Hey, one man's OCD is another man's neat as far as I'm concerned. It was only quite recently that I discovered that not everyone makes sure that the labels on tins or bottles face forwards in a regular manner.

It makes perfect sense to me - you can see at a glance what's on the shelf :shifty:


OCD is a debilitating actual condition, and is no one's 'neat'.

I suspect that she only meant "neat" in the sense of "neat and tidy". I doubt that she was expecting the Spanish inquisition.
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Re: OCD chat

#16  Postby kennyc » Jan 03, 2015 1:31 pm

Good Thread.

I'm with Fallible. There are many human tendencies, oddities, quirks and they are all what make us wonderful. The problems come in when those tendencies become so strong, so prevalent, so severe that they interfere with normal life, prevent you from going out or eating, or interacting with people etc. etc. etc.
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Re: OCD chat

#17  Postby The_Piper » Jan 03, 2015 2:03 pm

Fallible wrote:Incidentally, Tourettes and OCD are related, as are OCD and BDD (Body Dysmorphic Disorder). Or rather people with Tourettes often have OCD as well. Just my unqualified opinion, Pipez, but that doesn't seem like Tourettes to me either, because your noises and words aren't involuntary, you do them to amuse yourself.

Co-morbidity? :teef: Perhaps like my other compulsions; they have a basis in reality/sensibility, but are taking on a life of their own.
I don't think I have any involuntary tic issues like that, but I wouldn't be that surprised if I have another diagnosable condition with the shyness/social anxiety.

The_Metatron wrote:I suppose I could be said to be obsessive compulsive at times. I usually have a specific way of placing most everything, and have very well thought out reasons for doing so.

When I used to smoke, I had a triangular shaped bakelite ash tray that I used. The ashes went on one side of the hypotenuse (which was formed by the comb that would hold a lit cigarette), and I put the finished cigarattes on the other side, not all messy and randomly smashed, mind you. Instead, I would roll the ember off of the end of the cigarette, then stack the butts on the proper side of the ash tray, all facing the same way. The purpose for this exercise was to make it easier to clean the ashtray out when it was full.

I can think of dozens of similar examples around my house right now. Things that seem arbitrary, but actually are purposely thought out.

I am most structured with my tools. Most of my toolchest drawers are lined with closed cell foam, into which I have cut the shape of each tool that it will hold. It takes hours and hours to do this. The thing it prevents is looking for a goddamned 8mm combination wrench when I need one. I can walk up to my toolbox and have the exact tool (out of hundreds) in my hand an in use in seconds.

There is a secondary purpose to having everything in its well defined place. Very often, I am not really there when I put an object down that I am holding. I am likely thinking about the next problem. The result is that I have no picture in my mind of where I put down whatever it was I was holding. I wasn't there when I put it down, is the best way I know how to describe that. Having a place for everything prevents hours and hours of searching for shit.

This is what makes moving my household so goddamned stressful. For example, tonight, I need two C-clamps to repair a cracked bed rail. I have a perfectly clear picture in my mind of what toolbox holds those clamps. I can even envision the rest of its contents. But, I have no fucking idea where is that toolbox. Oh, it's in one of the packing boxes still in my garage, but it'll take me some time to pick through them to find it. I don't know where all of my shit is in my new house yet. Very uncomfortable.

I do envy the "neat freak" so to speak. If I knew where half of my stuff is, I'd be giddy. Well, even giddier than I already am. :smile:
Your tool-neatness sounds like it could be similar to my father's accounting-neatness. Instead of knowing where every tool is, he knows where virtually every dollar is. Both in cash and assets. The example earlier about the $1 cd is not only literally true, but it doesn't even begin to scratch on the surface. His notebooks are arranged that he can pull up just about any record in seconds. All on paper.
The man is incredibly sharp though, even at 79. I don't think there was ever a point in my life where I was as sharp as he is today. When visiting last year, I was reminded of the degree he goes to account for his finances, and joked that "I know where I got my ocd from". He said (paraphrasing) "it's not ocd, I'm on the ball. Why wouldn't you want to know where your money is?" That would be nice, but it's unrealistic for me to do it to that level.
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Re: OCD chat

#18  Postby Fallible » Jan 03, 2015 2:24 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
Fallible wrote:
Blip wrote:Hey, one man's OCD is another man's neat as far as I'm concerned. It was only quite recently that I discovered that not everyone makes sure that the labels on tins or bottles face forwards in a regular manner.

It makes perfect sense to me - you can see at a glance what's on the shelf :shifty:


OCD is a debilitating actual condition, and is no one's 'neat'.

I suspect that she only meant "neat" in the sense of "neat and tidy". I doubt that she was expecting the Spanish inquisition.


Yes that was how it was meant, that's the entire point. OCD and being neat and tidy are not interchangeable concepts, as I went to considerable lengths to explain. Got any more glaringly obvious things to say?
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: OCD chat

#19  Postby Fallible » Jan 03, 2015 2:32 pm

kennyc wrote:Good Thread.

I'm with Fallible. There are many human tendencies, oddities, quirks and they are all what make us wonderful. The problems come in when those tendencies become so strong, so prevalent, so severe that they interfere with normal life, prevent you from going out or eating, or interacting with people etc. etc. etc.


Precisely. When the tendencies become things that distress you or cause discomfort/inconvenience because you can't not do them, or they are caused by distressing thoughts or images which drive themselves unbidden into your head and won't leave, that's when they become a problem...and that's when you can be said to have OCD. In other words, when the tendencies themselves begin to cause more inconvenience than convenience and they have their roots in (unrealistic) scenarios and fears which you must insure yourself against in a way that does not make things easier but causes you more problems, you're crossing into disorder territory.
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: OCD chat

#20  Postby Fallible » Jan 03, 2015 2:38 pm

The_Piper wrote:
Fallible wrote:Incidentally, Tourettes and OCD are related, as are OCD and BDD (Body Dysmorphic Disorder). Or rather people with Tourettes often have OCD as well. Just my unqualified opinion, Pipez, but that doesn't seem like Tourettes to me either, because your noises and words aren't involuntary, you do them to amuse yourself.

Co-morbidity? :teef:


:nod:

Perhaps like my other compulsions; they have a basis in reality/sensibility, but are taking on a life of their own.
I don't think I have any involuntary tic issues like that, but I wouldn't be that surprised if I have another diagnosable condition with the shyness/social anxiety.


And indeed OCD is classified as an anxiety disorder like social anxiety, PTSD and Panic Disorder so that would not be surprising. Many people have OCD and another anxiety disorder. For example I have OCD and GAD (Generalised Anxiety Disorder).
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Fallible
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Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 43958
Age: 44
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Country: Engerland na na
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