Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions

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Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions

#1  Postby DougC » Jun 09, 2014 1:04 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/27716493
B.B.C. Nature Article
Rats experience regret when their actions make them miss out on better food options, a study has found.
It is the first time regret has been identified in mammals other than humans.
Researchers created situations where rats had to choose whether to wait a set amount of time for a food reward, or move onto another one.
Those that moved on and found the next offering was even worse showed regretful behaviour.
The study was conducted by neuroscientists based at the University of Minnesota, US; their findings are reported in Nature Neuroscience
It suggests thoughts similar to regret can affect the future decisions rodents make and dispels the belief that regret is unique to humans.
Prof David Redish, from the US-based research team, said it was important to differentiate regret from disappointment.

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The subjective experience of regret....in rats

#2  Postby kennyc » Jun 09, 2014 1:31 am

Like Humans, Rats Experience Regret, Study Suggests
By Tanya Lewis

Just as humans lament not pursuing a lover or bemoan having eaten that extra slice of chocolate cake, rats may experience feelings of regret, too, new research suggests.

When rats were given the option of visiting rooms that contained different foods, and they skipped a good deal for a worse one, they glanced back at the former room, rushed through eating the snack and were more likely to tolerate longer wait times for what they considered the more desirable food , researchers found.

Furthermore, the rats' brain activity represented the missed opportunity, suggesting the animals were, in fact, experiencing regret over their choice. [7 Thoughts That Are Bad For You]

"The rat is representing the counterfactual — the 'what might have been,'" David Redish, a neuroscientist at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis, and senior author of the study detailed today (June 8) in the journal Nature Neuroscience.

No other studies have shown convincingly that any animal besides humans experience regret, though some studies hinted it was possible, the researchers said.

Restaurants for rats

How do you define regret? You can't exactly ask a rat if it feels regret, but even if you could, it wouldn't be proof, just as it can be difficult to tell if a human feels regret just by asking them.

It's important to distinguish between regret and disappointment, Redish told Live Science. Regret occurs when you make a mistake, but recognize there's an alternate action you could have taken that would have resulted in a better outcome, he said. Disappointment happens when "the world's just not as good as you hoped, but it's not necessarily your fault," he said.

To test whether rats could feel regret, Redish and his graduate student Adam Steiner designed a kind of "restaurant row" for the animals — a circular enclosure with pathways leading off it to "restaurants" with different kinds of food, which were dispensed after some delay.
....


http://www.livescience.com/46184-rats-e ... egret.html
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Re: The subjective experience of regret....in rats

#3  Postby DougC » Jun 09, 2014 1:34 am

Beat ya! ;)
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Re: Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions

#4  Postby jamest » Jun 09, 2014 9:37 am

That's not regret. Regret is that "one more for the road" feeling you have about events which you are powerless to change.
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Re: Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions

#5  Postby Blackadder » Jun 09, 2014 9:45 am

jamest wrote:That's not regret. Regret is that "one more for the road" feeling you have about events which you are powerless to change.


No, that's chagrin.
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Re: Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions

#6  Postby kennyc » Jun 09, 2014 9:56 am

And the rats shall inherit the Earth.... :)
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Re: Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions

#7  Postby kennyc » Jun 09, 2014 9:58 am

Blackadder wrote:
jamest wrote:That's not regret. Regret is that "one more for the road" feeling you have about events which you are powerless to change.


No, that's chagrin.


I thought chargin' was what you did with your Visa card and then later REGRET it?
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Re: Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions

#8  Postby Blackadder » Jun 09, 2014 10:05 am

kennyc wrote:
Blackadder wrote:
jamest wrote:That's not regret. Regret is that "one more for the road" feeling you have about events which you are powerless to change.


No, that's chagrin.


I thought chargin' was what you did with your Visa card and then later REGRET it?


I regret to inform you that you are incorrect. Charring is what I do to steaks.
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Re: Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions

#9  Postby kennyc » Jun 09, 2014 10:09 am

That's 'blackened' surely Blackadder knows that. :rofl:
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Re: Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions

#10  Postby DavidMcC » Jun 09, 2014 3:14 pm

I don't think it's regret over a bad choice, I think it's the rat trying to have it both ways - the second choice AS WELL AS the first choice! That is more likely to be the rat's POV than this nonsense about regretting bad choices! They don't care about the humans' rules about their making choices, let's face it, they just want to have their cake and eat it!

EDIT: If there were any bad choices, it was by the neuroscientists who tried to work out what was in the rats' minds.
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Re: Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions

#11  Postby kennyc » Jun 09, 2014 3:17 pm

Nor do they care what you think. I'd certainly put my money on the researchers than on your opinions.
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Re: Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions

#12  Postby DavidMcC » Jun 09, 2014 4:45 pm

kennyc wrote:Nor do they care what you think. I'd certainly put my money on the researchers than on your opinions.

I can't help it if you believe anything you read in "Live Science", Kenny, but the "neuroscientists" do seem to have missed the simplest explanation of the rat's behaviour. Is it not much more likely that the rats would be trying to figure out how to get their second choice after they've got their first, given that no-one had told them the rules? Maybe you're just saying that to annoy me, or you think rats are really good at mind-reading? :shock:

EDIT: Furthermore, your response smacks of appeals to authority, which is not good for science.
Last edited by DavidMcC on Jun 09, 2014 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions

#13  Postby kennyc » Jun 09, 2014 4:57 pm

Wrong again David. You seem to be very good at that. As everyone knows.
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Re: Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions

#14  Postby kennyc » Jun 09, 2014 4:59 pm

BTW this was research published in Nature. Of course you know way more about cognitive science than those silly researchers, you you tell 'em! :rofl:
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Re: Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions

#15  Postby DavidMcC » Jun 09, 2014 5:03 pm

kennyc wrote:Wrong again David. You seem to be very good at that. As everyone knows.

Oh dear. :picard:
Please explain WHY I am wrong, (and why you are right) if that is what you believe. I will not derail this thread by asking you why you think I'm good at being wrong. What I'm good at is spotting blunders by so-called "neuroscientists" who need to improve their act.
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Re: Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions

#16  Postby kennyc » Jun 09, 2014 5:07 pm

No David, I'm done with your ignorance, if only we had an ignore function here, you'd be a the top of the list. As it is I will strive to ignore your ignorance from this point forward.
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Re: Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions

#17  Postby DavidMcC » Jun 09, 2014 5:07 pm

kennyc wrote:BTW this was research published in Nature. Of course you know way more about cognitive science than those silly researchers, you you tell 'em! :rofl:

As I thought, appeal to authority. Do you seriously think that "Nature" never published anything that has a serious mistake in it? If they didn't, they wouldn't need their "Nature Letters" magazine.
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Re: Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions

#18  Postby kennyc » Jun 09, 2014 5:08 pm

Not playing your games. Go ahead, publish your paper in response and straighten them out. :D
Last edited by kennyc on Jun 09, 2014 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions

#19  Postby DavidMcC » Jun 09, 2014 5:09 pm

kennyc wrote:No David, I'm done with your ignorance, if only we had an ignore function here, you'd be a the top of the list. As it is I will strive to ignore your ignorance from this point forward.

:roll:
Still no actual argument, then? :nono:
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Re: Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions

#20  Postby kennyc » Jun 09, 2014 5:11 pm

kennyc wrote:Not playing your games. Go ahead, publish your paper in response and straighten them out. :D


This. :cheers:
Last edited by kennyc on Jun 09, 2014 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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