Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

Or unscientific woo...or something else...

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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#21  Postby Fallible » Feb 06, 2020 12:30 pm

Keep It Real wrote:I've explained it at length in two different ways already.


You haven’t explained anything.
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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#22  Postby Fallible » Feb 06, 2020 12:37 pm

I also don’t think you understood what Carr was talking about when discussing sacrifice.
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She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#23  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Have you read/listened to Easy Way Fal?
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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#24  Postby Fallible » Feb 06, 2020 1:04 pm

There’s more than one you know.
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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#25  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 06, 2020 1:11 pm

I know. Have you read any of the editions? Because if not it's a bit rich to tell me I don't understand what he's talking about in the book.
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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#26  Postby newolder » Feb 06, 2020 1:16 pm

Keep It Real wrote:This is not the philosophy subforum.

As such, my request for empirical evidence is appropriate.
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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#27  Postby Fallible » Feb 06, 2020 1:18 pm

Keep It Real wrote:I know. Have you read any of the editions? Because if not it's a bit rich to tell me I don't understand what he's talking about in the book.


No, not editions. He writes on more than one addiction. I’ve read the one on gambling, and thumbed through others. They are all basically the same.
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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#28  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 06, 2020 1:25 pm

Yup, I knew that too. I'd be very interested to read the other and have :ahem: acquired the one on managing alcohol. Aaah, I see my mistake - In The Easy Way to Stop Smoking, the book I've consumed, and the first he wrote, he calls his method Easy Way - those two words alone are not the name of the book.

So anyway, you haven't read The Easy Way to Stop Smoking so the "it's a bit rich" thing re me misunderstanding where he writes of a feeling of sacrifice at quitting due to the potency of the reasons to quit stands. I got it perfic :thumbup:
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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#29  Postby Fallible » Feb 06, 2020 1:40 pm

It doesn’t stand at all. I cannot for the life of me get way you use the word ‘sacrifice’ to match with what he means by the term.
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She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#30  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 06, 2020 2:18 pm

The way I interpreted what he wrote was like this: all the constant barrage of information targeting smokers, telling them they're killing themselves, creates a sense of sacrifice in the smokers mind. They think "smoking must be sooooo good if the government needs to scream in our faces like this constantly in order to even TRY and make us quit, so if I WERE to quit I'd clearly be giving up something delicious and delightful - what a sacrifice to make! No wonder I can't quit smoking!"

Claro?
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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#31  Postby SafeAsMilk » Feb 06, 2020 2:33 pm

You haven't quite hit the mark.

All he's saying is you want to smoke because you enjoy it, so forcing yourself to stop doing it is a sacrifice because you're denying yourself that pleasure. That's all. Adding holograms or whatever bullshit doesn't clarify anything at all.

What is responsible for the difficulty is the mental addiction which causes us to feel that we’re making a sacrifice, that we’re being forced to give up a genuine pleasure or crutch and that we are therefore being deprived.

https://allencarr.com.au/physicaladdictionnicotine/

He also downplays nicotine addiction, which makes him a fucking quack. Nicotine is, by all objective measures, incredibly addictive.
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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#32  Postby laklak » Feb 06, 2020 2:37 pm

Some habits are just hard to break, particularly those dopamine heavy ones. Smoking is the hardest one for me.
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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#33  Postby Fallible » Feb 06, 2020 2:38 pm

What he says is that smokers believe they are gaining something beneficial from smoking, and that if you give them a replacement patch, for example, it gives them the message that they are ‘giving up’ something that they need to be compensated for. This makes them feel like they are being deprived of something when stopping smoking. Do you actually have a quote which identifies the process as you describe it, with it being the photos and the messages that smoking is bad which creates the belief in the benefit of smoking and feeling of sacrifice? It looks illogical to me.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#34  Postby Fallible » Feb 06, 2020 2:38 pm

And no, he’s not the best authority on smoking addiction, let’s say.
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She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#35  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 06, 2020 2:41 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:You haven't quite hit the mark.

All he's saying is you want to smoke because you enjoy it, so forcing yourself to stop doing it is a sacrifice because you're denying yourself that pleasure. That's all. Adding holograms or whatever bullshit doesn't clarify anything at all.

What is responsible for the difficulty is the mental addiction which causes us to feel that we’re making a sacrifice, that we’re being forced to give up a genuine pleasure or crutch and that we are therefore being deprived.

https://allencarr.com.au/physicaladdictionnicotine/

He also downplays nicotine addiction, which makes him a fucking quack. Nicotine is, by all objective measures, incredibly addictive.


WRONG - the mental addiction he's reffering to to is an entirely fabricated web of cognitive errors which INCLUDES to a very large degree (IMO) the cognitive error of creating "sacrifice holograms" as I have described in post #30.

I'll ask you too - have you actually read the book?
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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#36  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 06, 2020 2:43 pm

Fallible wrote:And no, he’s not the best authority on smoking addiction, let’s say.


You know of a better one?
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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#37  Postby Fallible » Feb 06, 2020 2:46 pm

Do you want to answer my question, or are you more interested in distraction?
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#38  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 06, 2020 2:49 pm

If you know of a way I can find the quote without listening to (presumable some large portion of) the whole 6.5 hour book again I'd appreciate it. If not, I will indeed undertake that task.
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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#39  Postby Fallible » Feb 06, 2020 2:52 pm

You’re bringing a claim or theory or whatever you want to call it, KIR. You bring the necessary information. ‘Oh to me it sounds like x,y,z, so this is this whole idea I built on it, what do you think?’ Is fine for a half arsed chat, which is what this is right now. But I’m not prepared to consider your idea worthy of serious consideration if you can’t even drum up the quote you base the whole thing on.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: Sacrifice Holograms - widespread barriers to much success?

#40  Postby SafeAsMilk » Feb 06, 2020 2:54 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:You haven't quite hit the mark.

All he's saying is you want to smoke because you enjoy it, so forcing yourself to stop doing it is a sacrifice because you're denying yourself that pleasure. That's all. Adding holograms or whatever bullshit doesn't clarify anything at all.

What is responsible for the difficulty is the mental addiction which causes us to feel that we’re making a sacrifice, that we’re being forced to give up a genuine pleasure or crutch and that we are therefore being deprived.

https://allencarr.com.au/physicaladdictionnicotine/

He also downplays nicotine addiction, which makes him a fucking quack. Nicotine is, by all objective measures, incredibly addictive.


WRONG - the mental addiction he's reffering to to is an entirely fabricated web of cognitive errors which INCLUDES to a very large degree (IMO) the cognitive error of creating "sacrifice holograms" as I have described in post #30.

I'll ask you too - have you actually read the book?

I don't read self-help quackery. I did better -- I quoted his very words right there for you to read. Meanwhile all you've done is posted your interpretation of his words, and as your posting history has shown, interpretation isn't your forte.

People enjoy and get pleasure out of smoking, that isn't a fabricated web of cognitive errors, it's a fact. By denying yourself that pleasure, you feel you are making a sacrifice.
Last edited by SafeAsMilk on Feb 06, 2020 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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