In need of some ideas
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You might find something here: http://www.orange-papers.org/menu1.htmlRed Zeppelin wrote:I need to know of some secular/rationalist recovery/support groups
amused wrote:Rational Recovery was set up as a counterpoint to AA.
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SpeedOfSound wrote:AA fights are lively and fast but this being the subforum it is I wonder if anyone has any ideas on how a secular AA type approach could be developed and how it would work to keep guys like me sober.
I would like to point out that the three links, P&T, the orange papers, and AVRT are the same links offered 3 years ago at RDF. The missing link here is this atheist version of AA whose name and link I have forgotten. They have two meetings here in MN and I found one of them to be an AA bitch fests and angry. Something is missing when I go to a meeting and want to either get drunk or get my gun.
SO. The rational approach has yet to find a way off the ground. Yet in my local AA group I find that I am having a great influence on many who formerly claimed to be christian and many who were just afraid to speak up. It's sort of an inside job but I am not happy to leave it there.
I certainly don't want to found anything. I want someone else to do it. I think it's time someone gets of their ass and takes a look at what does work about current programs and distill that into something new. Of course I have a few thousand opinions about what will work. One of those opinions is that statistical research will not be of too much use for the cause. As an addict I can assure you that I am not a statistic and would have no part of any study that tried to make we one. Doing statistics on addicts is like herding cats. The cats that will yield to such technique are not the cats you want to study.
SpeedOfSound wrote:Know anything about him?
SpeedOfSound wrote:
Hope I didn't misread this. You want to know about him? Me too. I read his stuff when I was a teen and I'm re-reading it now forty years later. Back when i first got into Watts I was struggling with hallucinations, suicidal depression and a nearly lethal overdose of existentialism and skepticism. His influence was the single most important element of how I use AA today and what I have cobbled together as a rabid atheistic mysticism.
I can't find a damned thing in his work so far that makes me think he is not an atheist. He is more like the Carl Sagan of the human spirit.
cavarka9 wrote:SpeedOfSound wrote:cavarka9 wrote:
want to know abt him
Hope I didn't misread this. You want to know about him? Me too. I read his stuff when I was a teen and I'm re-reading it now forty years later. Back when i first got into Watts I was struggling with hallucinations, suicidal depression and a nearly lethal overdose of existentialism and skepticism. His influence was the single most important element of how I use AA today and what I have cobbled together as a rabid atheistic mysticism.
I can't find a damned thing in his work so far that makes me think he is not an atheist. He is more like the Carl Sagan of the human spirit.
I would want to know about him,
he was a sort of traveler, few videos I saw were good
SpeedOfSound wrote:cavarka9 wrote:SpeedOfSound wrote:
Hope I didn't misread this. You want to know about him? Me too. I read his stuff when I was a teen and I'm re-reading it now forty years later. Back when i first got into Watts I was struggling with hallucinations, suicidal depression and a nearly lethal overdose of existentialism and skepticism. His influence was the single most important element of how I use AA today and what I have cobbled together as a rabid atheistic mysticism.
I can't find a damned thing in his work so far that makes me think he is not an atheist. He is more like the Carl Sagan of the human spirit.
I would want to know about him,
he was a sort of traveler, few videos I saw were good
This may be the place to discuss him seeing as he died of alcoholism and I attribute my not meeting the same fate to him more-so than AA. If he had not given me a secular way to approach spirituality I doubt I would be alive. This is the conundrum of any intelligent atheist walking into AA for the first time. Watts is my Rosetta stone for translating AA into atheism.
cavarka9 wrote:SpeedOfSound wrote:cavarka9 wrote:
I would want to know about him,
he was a sort of traveler, few videos I saw were good
This may be the place to discuss him seeing as he died of alcoholism and I attribute my not meeting the same fate to him more-so than AA. If he had not given me a secular way to approach spirituality I doubt I would be alive. This is the conundrum of any intelligent atheist walking into AA for the first time. Watts is my Rosetta stone for translating AA into atheism.
Do tell what you read of him
DanDare wrote:My mum was an alchoholic and fought with it for 20 years before it finally killed her. She tried AA but hated it. I was able to glean some things. Mostly the developing of habitual reactions that work against the desire to drink. The grouping together with other alchoholics is also important, but tricky because you can trick yourselves in to helping one another off the wagon as often as you can support one another to stay on it.
I also gather there is no global secular organisation that handles this but a myriad of small ones scattered about. Mum ended up with a group ominously called "ward 4" and I actually had 4 years of sober with her, the memory of which I still cherish.
SpeedOfSound wrote:amused wrote:Rational Recovery was set up as a counterpoint to AA.
That guy disturbs me with his economic motives. I can get around the fact that he looks like a child molester.
Berthold wrote:SpeedOfSound wrote:amused wrote:Rational Recovery was set up as a counterpoint to AA.
That guy disturbs me with his economic motives. I can get around the fact that he looks like a child molester.
What's disturbing to me is that he recommends unassisted cold withdrawal. That can be fatal.
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