The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#41  Postby Fallible » Jul 21, 2017 7:29 am

Keep It Real wrote:
Fallible wrote:Why are you asking me?

Because I value your opinion.


Right, well then my advice is to consult a psychiatrist and if you're not happy with what s/he says, get a second opinion. Don't attempt to self-treat without professional guidance.

As a general rule of thumb, I would tend to listen to a qualified professional over an unqualified amateur. If I was not happy with what the professional told me, I would seek out a second opinion from another professional . Sometimes individuals know what's best for them. Sometimes they just think they do. The graveyards of the world are filled with the latter group.

Psychiatrists agree with me in my experience that being deprived of some dopamine neurotransmission is preferable to being psychotic. I'm sure they'd also agree that having full neurotransmission and being free from psychosis is preferable to either. Where I think I disagree with psychiatrists in general is that they seem to think living a half-life on antipsychotics is advisable as a permanent solution...but I don't know this for a fact as I haven't spoken to one (other than Shrunk) for 3 years.

I really need to chase down some professional advice and support tomorrow; perhaps I'll call the crisis team if my CPN doesn't get back to me...the trouble is I've been discharged so perhaps he feels no duty of care toward me anymore. I can't afford to wait 2 weeks for a GP appointment and subsequent referral.


You know the score. Mental health provision is the poor relation to physical health provision, since the supposedly civilized world is still intent on making an arbitrary distinction between them. Provision is patchy, there are many cracks to fall between and you will be passed from pillar to post with no one willing to take responsibiliy. Persevere. Make a nuisance of yourself. This is your life and health we'rd talking about.

I agree that I should listen to the professionals, only for some reason I am adamant that it's time to try full dopamine again because I'm wasting my life and killing myself with substance abuse because of the apathy and boredom which goes along with having one's dopamine neurotransmission decreased significantly. BTW, I haven't had a drink for 3 days and have no craving for alcohol now I'm off the meds. I doubt a psychiatrist could persuade me to go back on the antipsychotics unless I was really suffering with psychosis...but I should give them the chance to try, if that is their professional opinion.


You're adamant because you're sick to death of the way you've been feeling. That doesn't mean you're right. You may well be, but you need to gather more information first.
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#42  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 21, 2017 11:14 am

My CPN called me back and was surprisingly supportive of my decision to stop the antipsychotics. He did say that he would have cut down, rather than stop dead, and that I should see my GP, but basically suggested it was ok and a reasonable time to make the change. I called my GP and made an appointment for next friday. Still feel fine.
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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#43  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 21, 2017 12:07 pm

The_Metatron wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:Well, I never heard voices and aren't hearing them now. What I did was twist real world sounds, images and voices into the narrative of my psychosis. I'm not in touch with a psychiatrist although I should probably make an appointment with my GP.

There's your huckleberry.


The huckleberry has docked :)
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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#44  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 21, 2017 12:28 pm

Fallible wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:
Fallible wrote:Why are you asking me?

Because I value your opinion.


Right, well then my advice is to consult a psychiatrist and if you're not happy with what s/he says, get a second opinion. Don't attempt to self-treat without professional guidance.

No contact with a psychiatrist then, only a community psychiatric nurse, and whatdoyathunk, they didn't say I am making a mistake!

You know the score. Mental health provision is the poor relation to physical health provision, since the supposedly civilized world is still intent on making an arbitrary distinction between them. Provision is patchy, there are many cracks to fall between and you will be passed from pillar to post with no one willing to take responsibiliy. Persevere. Make a nuisance of yourself. This is your life and health we'rd talking about.

I've got the crisis team number saved in my phone, talked to my CPN and made an appointment with my GP. Perhaps I should ask my GP for a referral to a psychiatrist for a consultation...seems a bit preemptive but it wouldn't hurt...what do you think?

I agree that I should listen to the professionals, only for some reason I am adamant that it's time to try full dopamine again because I'm wasting my life and killing myself with substance abuse because of the apathy and boredom which goes along with having one's dopamine neurotransmission decreased significantly. BTW, I haven't had a drink for 3 days and have no craving for alcohol now I'm off the meds. I doubt a psychiatrist could persuade me to go back on the antipsychotics unless I was really suffering with psychosis...but I should give them the chance to try, if that is their professional opinion.


You're adamant because you're sick to death of the way you've been feeling. That doesn't mean you're right. You may well be, but you need to gather more information first.

That chat with my CPN has gone a long way toward my feeling that enough information has been gathered to continue antipsychotic free with confidence and optimism....or is that wishful thinking...hmmmmmmmmm.
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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#45  Postby Fallible » Jul 21, 2017 12:34 pm

What do I think? It always remains the same. Talk to the professionals. Your GP is better placed to know if you should see a psychiatrist than I am.
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#46  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 21, 2017 12:58 pm

Okey dokey pig in a pokey; I'll see what my GP says. Thanks.
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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#47  Postby monkeyboy » Jul 21, 2017 2:02 pm

Big problem with getting advice from people in places like here is that all anyone has to go on KIR, is your disclosure. Nobody has met you, seen how you function on meds, off meds, ill, well etc. I've nursed hundreds of people over the years and would not attempt to do so remotely over the phone or interwebs without knowing them well.
I know many people who consider themselves totally well who are grossly psychotic, those who are crippled by forms of anxiety but consider their reclusive existence to he normal. Some recover from long periods of symptoms to find their uncluttered mind to be a scary and unfamiliar place.
Changes in meds, in my professional opinion are better monitored by someone other than just the person affected. Onset or recurrence of symptoms are generally insidious and not instantly apparent. Likewise, recovery is usually a slow thing. Rarely do people experiencing mental health issues recover very quickly, it's more a period of adjustment and sometimes people require a degree of support and reassurance that what they are experiencing is OK.
We professionals aren't all about shovelling meds into people. It's fine coming off meds but it's safer with support from someone who knows you. A reduction period might have been the better route to no meds.
Yes, you've shared some of your experiences here but the top and bottom is, despite having professional qualifications and nearly 25yrs on the job, I'm in no position to offer anything but generic advice. It would be arrogant to assume otherwise. All the celeb doctors on TV listen to stuff like this and pretty much always suggest getting in touch with GPs etc for specific advice/help.
Best of luck.
Last edited by monkeyboy on Jul 21, 2017 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#48  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 21, 2017 2:47 pm

monkeyboy wrote:Big problem with getting advice from people in places like here is that all anyone has to go on KIR, is your disclosure. Nobody has met you, seen how you function on meds, off meds, I'll, well etc. I've nursed hundreds of people over the years and would not attempt to do so remotely over the phone or interwebs without knowing them well.

I have been completely honest, to the best of my ability, in what I've written on this forum, I promise you. I think it's possible to know somebody well without ever meeting them in the flesh. I'm on day 6 now of no antipsychotics and am experiencing no anxiety or paranoia I'm aware of; but in the past when I've been off the antipsychotics I was completely psychotic - imagining I am being monitored and followed by the feds; that technology is controlling my mind; and a host of other delusions: narcissism totalis basically. This went on for years. I've been hospitalised 3 times psychotic. Tada! You know me a little better!

I know many people who consider themselves totally well who are grossly psychotic, those who are crippled by forms of anxiety but consider their reclusive existence to he normal. Some recover from long periods of symptoms to find their uncluttered mind to be a scary and unfamiliar place.

I have been extremely reluctant to take antipsychotics in the past, when psychotic, believing myself to be well - so much so that I was put on a community treatment order meaning that if I refused the antipsychotics they would be administered by force. Luckily it never came to that as I capitulated, but I relate to what you say nevertheless.

Changes in meds, in my professional opinion are better monitored by someone other than just the person affected. Onset or recurrence of symptoms are generally insidious and not instantly apparent. Likewise, recovery is usually a slow thing. Rarely do people experiencing mental health issues recover very quickly, it's more a period of adjustment and sometimes people require a degree of support and reassurance that what they are experiencing is OK.

I live alone and go days without seeing anybody - my only human contact being emails, phone calls and this forum. If I start to post some crazy looking shit I hope people might be able to tell me I may be psychotic. The more monitoring the better - agreed. I'm terrified of going psychotic and losing insight as has been the case in the past, but what can I do?

We professionals aren't all about shovelling meds into people. It's fine coming off meds but it's safer with support from someone who knows you. A reduction period might have been the better route to no meds.
Yes, you've shared some of your experiences here but the top and bottom is, despite having professional qualifications and nearly 25yrs on the job, I'm in no position to offer anything but generic advice. It would be arrogant to assume otherwise. All the celeb doctors on TV listen to stuff like this and pretty much always suggest getting in touch with GPs etc for specific advice/help.

For what it's worth I'd take any advice you have to give most likely. Call me gullible but I believe you're a pro. It might not be 100% reliable but the chances are your advice is good IMO - same goes for Fallible, Metatron, Shrunk, Blip...the list goes on.

Best of luck.

Thank you monkeyboy.
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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#49  Postby DavidMcC » Jul 21, 2017 4:21 pm

monkeyboy wrote:Big problem with getting advice from people in places like here is that all anyone has to go on KIR, is your disclosure. Nobody has met you, seen how you function on meds, off meds, I'll, well etc. I've nursed hundreds of people over the years and would not attempt to do so remotely over the phone or interwebs without knowing them well.
...

Maybe, but the "advice" (at least the latest advice) was only to see someone like you, in person, so what's the problem?
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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#50  Postby Fallible » Jul 21, 2017 4:33 pm

That you can't predict that's what the advice would be. If you could, you wouldn't need to ask for it in the first place. You would know already.
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#51  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 21, 2017 8:11 pm

What's wrong with accepting advice from people you esteem - any advice? You can get to know somebody well through online communication and form an opinion of their personality and knowledge; just look at all the successful international romantic relationships kindled online. I've listened to people in this thread and made contact with health professionals in the real world because of their advice and arguments. If that's a mistake then I guess you're on your own in this life - fuck that; I'd rather take advice when I'm unsure from people who appear to be knowledgeable and good-hearted.
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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#52  Postby monkeyboy » Jul 21, 2017 11:11 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
monkeyboy wrote:Big problem with getting advice from people in places like here is that all anyone has to go on KIR, is your disclosure. Nobody has met you, seen how you function on meds, off meds, I'll, well etc. I've nursed hundreds of people over the years and would not attempt to do so remotely over the phone or interwebs without knowing them well.
...

Maybe, but the "advice" (at least the latest advice) was only to see someone like you, in person, so what's the problem?

There's no problem with that advice. But it's as far as any responsible practitioner would go. A good deal of diagnosis is based on observation and you can't do that based on what someone is willing to divulge alone.
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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#53  Postby monkeyboy » Jul 21, 2017 11:32 pm

Keep It Real wrote:What's wrong with accepting advice from people you esteem - any advice?

Nothing at all. But that advice is limited by the information available, which is limited online.

You can get to know somebody well through online communication and form an opinion of their personality and knowledge; just look at all the successful international romantic relationships kindled online. I've listened to people in this thread and made contact with health professionals in the real world because of their advice and arguments. If that's a mistake then I guess you're on your own in this life - fuck that; I'd rather take advice when I'm unsure from people who appear to be knowledgeable and good-hearted.

It's not an attack on you or your honesty to acknowledge my own limitations in being able to carry out what I consider to be a fair assessment of someone's mental state based on posts here. I won't bullshit you in any way. Any advice I offer will be honest, professional and to the best of my ability. Anyone deserves that. What I won't do is assume things I don't know, or be pushed into opinions I can't give due to lack of evidence. I'm accustomed to people denying symptoms or telling me what they think I want to hear when their behaviour is incongruous to their words. I'm not accusing you of being disingenuous at all, indeed when this kind of thing occurs it's not generally driven by any intent to deceive at all, usually by a lack of insight or realisation that symptoms exist.
I don't distrust your honesty at all. In your thread about addiction, your self disclosure appears genuine. If I have doubts, they are of my ability to assist you to the degree I might if I knew you on a face to face basis and as a result, my advice remains that professional supervision in person trumps online advice any day.
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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#54  Postby Fallible » Jul 22, 2017 7:21 am

Keep It Real wrote:What's wrong with accepting advice from people you esteem - any advice? You can get to know somebody well through online communication and form an opinion of their personality and knowledge; just look at all the successful international romantic relationships kindled online. I've listened to people in this thread and made contact with health professionals in the real world because of their advice and arguments. If that's a mistake then I guess you're on your own in this life - fuck that; I'd rather take advice when I'm unsure from people who appear to be knowledgeable and good-hearted.


Is this really this hard? There isn't anything wrong per se with getting advice online. The problem with getting advice on mental health issues online has already been explained to you in the Feedback thread you started. You might not be vulnerable, or think you are vulnerable, but many people with mental health issues are - by the very nature of mental illness, those suffering are liable to be thinking less clearly. You don't know who you're speaking to, or their motivation for giving advice. This could lead to vulnerable people receiving bad advice and acting on it.
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#55  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 22, 2017 11:40 am

monkeyboy wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:What's wrong with accepting advice from people you esteem - any advice?

Nothing at all. But that advice is limited by the information available, which is limited online.

How is it limited - as long as people keep it real?


It's not an attack on you or your honesty to acknowledge my own limitations in being able to carry out what I consider to be a fair assessment of someone's mental state based on posts here. I won't bullshit you in any way. Any advice I offer will be honest, professional and to the best of my ability. Anyone deserves that. What I won't do is assume things I don't know, or be pushed into opinions I can't give due to lack of evidence. I'm accustomed to people denying symptoms or telling me what they think I want to hear when their behaviour is incongruous to their words. I'm not accusing you of being disingenuous at all, indeed when this kind of thing occurs it's not generally driven by any intent to deceive at all, usually by a lack of insight or realisation that symptoms exist.
I don't distrust your honesty at all. In your thread about addiction, your self disclosure appears genuine. If I have doubts, they are of my ability to assist you to the degree I might if I knew you on a face to face basis and as a result, my advice remains that professional supervision in person trumps online advice any day.


It's reassuring to know you're out there monkeyboy.
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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#56  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 22, 2017 11:43 am

Fallible wrote:Is this really this hard? There isn't anything wrong per se with getting advice online. The problem with getting advice on mental health issues online has already been explained to you in the Feedback thread you started. You might not be vulnerable, or think you are vulnerable, but many people with mental health issues are - by the very nature of mental illness, those suffering are liable to be thinking less clearly.

I think everybody's always vulnerable


You don't know who you're speaking to, or their motivation for giving advice.

You know their motivation isn't money. Also :tinfoil:
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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#57  Postby Fallible » Jul 23, 2017 7:00 am

Yeah, I've just read your embarrassing posts in your Feedback thread that earned you an advisory. Not a great advertisement for coming off your meds unsupervised. Don't worry though, there's someone here that agrees with irresponsible behaviour because psychiatrists get money for doing a job of work.
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#58  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 23, 2017 10:16 am

There is no supervision available. My CPN didn't seem to think my coming off antipsychotics was irresponsible. The only embarrassment around is that some people frequent the forum despite believing people aren't overwhelmingly honest in their posts. If I thought that I'd view this forum as being a prodigious waste of time.
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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#59  Postby Nicko » Jul 23, 2017 11:47 am

Keep It Real wrote:OK Nicko - I'll call my old CPN when I get home later and tell them the score. I know what they'll say though - GET BACK ON THE ANTIPSYCHOTICS!!!! Will I? Not a chance...I'm going to write on my wall "if anxious, take antipsychotics".


As it turned out, your expectation was wrong.

Look, I'm not saying you need antipsychotics. I'm not saying you don't, either.

I'm saying you need to be in regular contact with a qualified professional whom you trust.
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Re: The development of psychosis in a schizophrenic

#60  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 23, 2017 12:14 pm

Nicko wrote:
As it turned out, your expectation was wrong.

It's a great relief I was wrong too - it was uncomfortable to think I was going against professional advice.
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