Unconsious is located where in the brain?

Area of the brain that contains unconscious programming

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Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#1  Postby Senin » Aug 04, 2014 11:13 pm

I have noticed that the mapping of the brain has become quite thorough. We are now able to determine the function of the left brain and the right brain. We are able to determine what parts of the brain are responsible for specific activities- such as math, language, memory.

I was wondering what part of the brain contains the unconscious response-- such as unconscious fears, unconscious habits, unconscious programs. Would it be on the left or right hemisphere? And particular region?

Does anyone know this?

Thanks
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Re: Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#2  Postby Macdoc » Aug 05, 2014 3:28 am

That is like asking where the internet is. :roll:

The brain is a neural network - it has emergent properties... take it from there.
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Re: Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#3  Postby Senin » Aug 05, 2014 5:52 am

Not necessarily. It is being mapped. Ya can't be complacent.

For example, here is one very good map
http://hiddentalents.org/brain/113-map-print.html
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Re: Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#4  Postby chairman bill » Aug 05, 2014 9:36 am

Whilst we know that certain areas of the brain are integral to certain functions, we are talking about largely distributed systems. Most of our brain's activity is unconscious, and we become aware of certain aspects.

As for what gives rise to our awareness of mental activities (or the results of them), that is still up for debate. What we do know is that people who have lost one hemisphere, retain consciousness, so we can be pretty certain that it is also a distributed system, albeit one that doesn't appear to have a particular locus.
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Re: Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#5  Postby Sendraks » Aug 05, 2014 10:58 am

The whole "left brain, right brain" thing has been pretty thoroughly debunked http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/19/right-brain-left-brain-debunked_n_3762322.html

As for the autonomic nervous system, this is pretty well understood, although by no means exhaustively.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomic_nervous_system The point of this is some of our 'unconcious' behaviours will be driven by autonomic responses and I can't imagine it is easy to map where the ANS response ends and the learned or habituated unconcious behaviour begins.
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Re: Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#6  Postby chairman bill » Aug 05, 2014 11:06 am

My point about the loss of a hemisphere, is that if there was a particular area responsible for unconsciousness/consciousness, the fact that people have lost one side or the other, yet retained both, would suggest that it doesn't actually have an important spot at all. Add-in the fact that those who lose all the brain bar the brainstem, certainly appear to lose all conciousness, suggesting that is a function of the complexity of the brain rather than anything else.
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Re: Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#7  Postby Sendraks » Aug 05, 2014 12:26 pm

Sorry Bill, my comment was directed at the OP, not you and was intended to back up what you said, not disagree with it.
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Re: Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#8  Postby Clive Durdle » Aug 05, 2014 1:00 pm

The brain has different parts with different function, intellectual, motor...

Many of these functions do not need thinking - is that is meant by "unconscious"?

Kindly read up on brain structure and for example effects of strokes in different areas..

And is my little toe part of my brain?
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Re: Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#9  Postby Macdoc » Aug 05, 2014 1:25 pm

Yes it is. It's part of your neural network as long as the nerves are connect.

Autonomic is the is the word you are looking for in the "don't need to think about it " - ie breathing.

While specific regions have general purpose the brain is elastic and if say blindness occurs then over sensory inputs make use of the "neural space" that is not being used by the eyes.
Synaethesia occurs when the use overlaps.

Unconscious is a poor term to use for autonomic functions IMNSHO

as far as strokes go...killing the neurons in an activity related area does not necessarily lose the skill set involved...the brain remaps to other neuron clusters......

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http://www.amazon.ca/The-Plastic-Mind-S ... 1845296745
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Re: Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#10  Postby Clive Durdle » Aug 05, 2014 1:36 pm

I check reviews!

3 of 4 people found the following review helpful
1.0 out of 5 stars Lama, 9 Mar 2013
By P. House "Janet House" (UK) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
Verified Purchase(What is this?)
This review is from: The Plastic Mind (Paperback)
I wanted a book on the plasticity of the brain (And mind!)...I got truly fed up reading about the religious leader who seems to have 'authenticated' everything the author says. I need REAL, scientific research and evidence, not Religion. Maybe I should have read all of it but I got bored with the religious aspect.
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Re: Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#11  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 05, 2014 4:23 pm

Macdoc wrote:Yes it is. It's part of your neural network as long as the nerves are connect.

...

Ha ha! ... No. It's more of an external peripheral device than being built into the network. If it was more than that, you might be thinking with your toes.
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Re: Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#12  Postby Senin » Aug 05, 2014 5:00 pm

I think that Jill Bolte Taylor's book regarding her stroke is fascinating.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_tay ... of_insight

It details what occurs in her during her stroke. How portions of her left brain start to shut down and the effects on her. Then her right brain opens up more and the effects on her. I believe she said that she learned more about the brain from her stroke than all her years studying the brain at Harvard.

The book definitely makes the point that the reasoning part of the brain is the left side and "all are one" euphoric side is the right.

My thoughts would be, where are the unconscious programs (fear, addictions, desires), in the left or the right? Or is there an unconscious program part in the left and the right.

I understand how the brain is somewhat plastic and can make up for damaged areas to a degree, but not entirely. We see people who have damaged brains that act a certain way because of the damaged area. And some damage cannot be made up for.
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Re: Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#13  Postby Macdoc » Aug 06, 2014 12:09 am

of course there are limits but you are trying to conflate "unconscious" which is a state of the neural network with a locus that is engaged in particular aspects of the communications within the neural net ....ie vision.

One is a state of activity
the other is a location.

Take my laptop for instance...

If it is plugged in and awake the high end video card kicks in for added capability but it can fall back to the onboard video under certain conditions.
If I put the computer to sleep...certain parts of the hardware and software are still "conscious" to outside stimili but most are not.
If I shut it off....nearly all are in a state of unconsciousness.

If I pull the battery..it's dead

If I am working on a specific application with others open...resources will be funnelled to the one I am active with, others may drop to a quiet state using few resources

This is allocated by the OS without my input tho I can change some parameters.

Your brain's OS performs a similar function throughout the neural net....for instance fight/flight situation will kick some things into high gear like oxygen uptake and muscle readiness and may damp something like pain response.

It's a very complex OS and we don't YET have the programming language. ;)
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Re: Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#14  Postby Macdoc » Aug 06, 2014 12:31 am

fear, addictions, desires),

are emergent....the os has competing demands from various parts of the neural net.

prioritizing algoritms have developed by evolution and can be trained to a degree.

A gag reflex might be trained out in certain forms of enjoyable sex :naughty2:

not peeing tho has its limits and will end in wet pants.

ancestor suppressing flight due to competing curiousity algorithm may end as lunch

ancestor suppressing fear of fire might be an inovator of note.

The brain's OS is constantly balancing demands and incorporating learned bit of information....stove is hot..avoid.

We get into trouble when the checks and balances within the structure are flawed, genetically, epigenetically, trauma or drugs...
FAS kids have a different evaluation of private property than normal kids not subject to mom's drinking during pregnancy.
They lack the check on taking someone else's property.

There are people whose pleasure response outweighs their self preservation and they can self destruct through addiction.

Little oinky boy overeats the berry patch and becomes lunch for the bear that chases him out.
Slimmer friends with higher metabolism or faster satiation signal escape.

We've got layers and layers of old program algorithms that sometimes do not serve us well in a modern society. ( road rage ).
Eat all the high fat you can get....you never know.....

We are all flawed as should be as the evolution goes on....these days somewhat guided with drugs and other therapies.

This is excellent
http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/bayesian-brain

and the mentioned..
http://www.amazon.ca/The-Plastic-Mind-S ... 1845296745
that is nothing short of astounding.

Our neural net is marvelous in action and even when damaged.
We are only just beginning to get a handle on some aspects allowing us more control over aspects.
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Re: Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#15  Postby Senin » Aug 06, 2014 9:16 am

Your laptop doesn't have a left brain/right brain, does it? The human body never ceases to amaze me. What a wonderful construct. And much better than modern computers, at least at this stage of the game. Currently, the human brain is superior to the laptop. And it has a left and a right, and a corpus callosum to connect them. Something works there!

Okay, here is my original thinking....
Left brain- linear, math, language, time, etc
Right brain- artistic, abstract, in the now
Those nasty little unconscious patterns (fear of public speaking, bad habits, hatreds, etc), is there a part in the left brain and a part in the right brain?

We know the human brain is broken down at least into the two-- left and right.
Can we also break it down into the four? conscious right, conscious left, unconscious right, unconscious left?
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Re: Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#16  Postby Cito di Pense » Aug 06, 2014 9:34 am

Senin wrote:Your laptop doesn't have a left brain/right brain, does it? The human body never ceases to amaze me. What a wonderful construct. And much better than modern computers, at least at this stage of the game. Currently, the human brain is superior to the laptop. And it has a left and a right, and a corpus callosum to connect them. Something works there!

Okay, here is my original thinking....
Left brain- linear, math, language, time, etc
Right brain- artistic, abstract, in the now
Those nasty little unconscious patterns (fear of public speaking, bad habits, hatreds, etc), is there a part in the left brain and a part in the right brain?

We know the human brain is broken down at least into the two-- left and right.
Can we also break it down into the four? conscious right, conscious left, unconscious right, unconscious left?


The hilarious thing about the woo that you are peddling is highlighted by the problem of removing someone's unconscious. They'd never know, would they, unless you told them! If you did, they might think in a different way, and complain that their unconscious had regrown itself. Go study something scientific. You're wasting people's time, here.
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Re: Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#17  Postby Rilx » Aug 06, 2014 9:56 am

Senin wrote:We know the human brain is broken down at least into the two-- left and right.
Can we also break it down into the four? conscious right, conscious left, unconscious right, unconscious left?

You seem to speak of few surface parts of brains, mostly of the left and right hemispheres of the cerebral cortex. That's not all; lower animals they are relatively small compared with human brains.

In the map you linked there's also cerebellum which doesn't belong to the hemispheres. BTW, it's totally unconscious.

I suggest you search a better, 3-dimensional picture of the whole brains where you see the internal parts. There you'll find emotions, pain and pleasure, etc. Google for instance "limbic system" and continue with what you find.

You won't find conscious parts as areas in the brains. Depending on what you are doing, the relevant neural networks all over the brains produce appropriate conscious experiences.
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Re: Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#18  Postby Animavore » Aug 06, 2014 9:58 am

Surely unconscious resides where ever consciousness lacks?
I think the OP is looking for subconscious.
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Re: Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#19  Postby Sendraks » Aug 06, 2014 1:44 pm

Senin wrote:Okay, here is my original thinking....
Left brain- linear, math, language, time, etc
Right brain- artistic, abstract, in the now
Those nasty little unconscious patterns (fear of public speaking, bad habits, hatreds, etc), is there a part in the left brain and a part in the right brain?


As per my earlier post, your thinking that specific activity is restricted hemispheres of the brain has been debunked.
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Re: Unconsious is located where in the brain?

#20  Postby chairman bill » Aug 06, 2014 4:39 pm

Senin wrote:Okay, here is my original thinking....
Which counts for nothing. Provide some evidence.

Left brain- linear, math, language, time, etc
Right brain- artistic, abstract, in the now
The evidence doesn't support this

Those nasty little unconscious patterns (fear of public speaking, bad habits, hatreds, etc), is there a part in the left brain and a part in the right brain?
No

We know the human brain is broken down at least into the two-- left and right.
Can we also break it down into the four? conscious right, conscious left, unconscious right, unconscious left?
No

Go and read a basic textbook on the subject. Then come back here & announce that you now realise how wrong you were.
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