Understanding Homophobia

Its causes and possible cures

Studies of mental functions, behaviors and the nervous system.

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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#141  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jul 22, 2017 8:49 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
SpeedOfSound wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:

Another thing you could try would be to quit blowing out plaintive rationalizations based on some sort of anxiety that somebody might think you're gay if you're homophobic. There are plenty of good reasons not to be homophobic. Worrying about whether somebody thinks you're homophobic (and hence, might be gay) is probably the least of your worries, innit?

I wouldn't mind if I was gay - that's how I got over my homophobia. If you mind if you're gay, you're gonna be homophobic methinks.

I don't care if I 'turn gay' overnight. I have no iron in the dating fire. I am meaning something else by homophobic.

I don't have an aversion to seeing gay images since I got over my homophobia...it's just like watching paint dry - it has no emotional impact whatsoever. Your aversion to gay images is a mystery to me, if you don't mind if you were gay.

Let's make an analogy:
"Your aversion to broccoli is a mystery to me, if you don't mind if you would've liked brocolli."
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#142  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jul 22, 2017 8:52 pm

SpeedOfSound wrote: For me it means having a strong negative reaction to seeing two men kissing.

That's not how it's commonly defined, if the dictionaries are to be believed:
Definition of homophobia in English:
noun
mass noun

Dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/homophobia
Note: I am not arguing your definition is objectively wrong, or the dictionary's objectively right. I'm saying that employing idiosyncratic definitions in discussions won't lead to productive results. Not unless participants agree on a definition.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#143  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 22, 2017 9:39 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:
SpeedOfSound wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:
I wouldn't mind if I was gay - that's how I got over my homophobia. If you mind if you're gay, you're gonna be homophobic methinks.

I don't care if I 'turn gay' overnight. I have no iron in the dating fire. I am meaning something else by homophobic.

I don't have an aversion to seeing gay images since I got over my homophobia...it's just like watching paint dry - it has no emotional impact whatsoever. Your aversion to gay images is a mystery to me, if you don't mind if you were gay.

Let's make an analogy:
"Your aversion to broccoli is a mystery to me, if you don't mind if you would've liked brocolli."

Except that liking broccoli excludes the liking of your usual food. We're not talking about bisexuality here. Crap analogy.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#144  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jul 22, 2017 9:43 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:
SpeedOfSound wrote:
I don't care if I 'turn gay' overnight. I have no iron in the dating fire. I am meaning something else by homophobic.

I don't have an aversion to seeing gay images since I got over my homophobia...it's just like watching paint dry - it has no emotional impact whatsoever. Your aversion to gay images is a mystery to me, if you don't mind if you were gay.

Let's make an analogy:
"Your aversion to broccoli is a mystery to me, if you don't mind if you would've liked brocolli."

Except that liking broccoli excludes the liking of your usual food. We're not talking about bisexuality here. Crap analogy.

Nope, once again crap understanding on your part.
The analogy isn't about bi- or homosexuality, it's about how somebody can despise something without being afraid of liking that something.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#145  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 22, 2017 9:48 pm

At the cost of liking something else.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#146  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jul 22, 2017 10:17 pm

Keep It Real wrote:At the cost of liking something else.

What cost? There is no cost.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#147  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 22, 2017 10:35 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:At the cost of liking something else.

What cost? There is no cost.

The cost of not fancying/fucking the opposite sex anymore. Jesus.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#148  Postby The_Metatron » Jul 22, 2017 11:21 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:At the cost of liking something else.

What cost? There is no cost.

The cost of not fancying/fucking the opposite sex anymore. Jesus.

Yeah, that's just sort of dim, in any context.

If you stop doing that which you no longer prefer, there exists no cost. None.


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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#149  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jul 23, 2017 12:46 am

The_Metatron wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:At the cost of liking something else.

What cost? There is no cost.

The cost of not fancying/fucking the opposite sex anymore. Jesus.

Yeah, that's just sort of dim, in any context.

If you stop doing that which you no longer prefer, there exists no cost. None.


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:this:
Metatron beat me to it.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#150  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 23, 2017 12:06 pm

The_Metatron wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:At the cost of liking something else.

What cost? There is no cost.

The cost of not fancying/fucking the opposite sex anymore. Jesus.

Yeah, that's just sort of dim, in any context.

If you stop doing that which you no longer prefer, there exists no cost. None.


I agree, but I think the simple homophobe doesn't realise this - they can't imagine that homosexuality would be satisfying, all they know is that they fear losing their current orientation/sex life which they enjoy and relish with a passion.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#151  Postby Nicko » Jul 23, 2017 1:55 pm

Keep It Real wrote:I agree, but I think the simple homophobe doesn't realise this - they can't imagine that homosexuality would be satisfying, all they know is that they fear losing their current orientation/sex life which they enjoy and relish with a passion.


Don't know about this. I suspect that there's no one cause.

One homophobe might have had a bad, even abusive, experience.

One might have a particularly fragile sense of their own sexual identity.

One might just have some very bad information: associating homosexuality with paedophilia, for example.

I'm sure there's more possibilities.
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Understanding Homophobia

#152  Postby The_Metatron » Jul 23, 2017 4:38 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
What cost? There is no cost.

The cost of not fancying/fucking the opposite sex anymore. Jesus.

Yeah, that's just sort of dim, in any context.

If you stop doing that which you no longer prefer, there exists no cost. None.


I agree, but I think the simple homophobe doesn't realise this - they can't imagine that homosexuality would be satisfying, all they know is that they fear losing their current orientation/sex life which they enjoy and relish with a passion.

Rubbish. Are you thinking that sexual orientation is some sort of a thing you can like or dislike? A matter of taste? Do you even think changing channels is even possible? I don't.

My orientation is simply what I am. I didn't choose this, I didn't think about it to consider what would be more "satisfying". It is as much a part of me as my considerable height, my hauntingly deep brown eyes, my distinguished greying but complete head of hair, and my chiseled, rugged good looks. I see no reason to suggest the same wouldn't apply for anyone of any other sexual orientation, or any other trait they didn't choose, but were born possessing.

The understanding of that simple fact drives me to treat people as I expect to be treated for some characteristic or trait that I didn't choose, but simply exists.

I don't know. People get wound up over a lot of shit that doesn't concern them.


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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#153  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 23, 2017 5:34 pm

The_Metatron wrote:
Rubbish. Are you thinking that sexual orientation is some sort of a thing you can like or dislike? A matter of taste? Do you even think changing channels is even possible? I don't.

The APA says people realise they are gay, straight or bi at different times during their lives. I'm certainly aware of many case studies where lesbians move into straight relationships, or people renounce their historic heterosexuality for homosexuality. People do change channels sometimes.

My orientation is simply what I am. I didn't choose this, I didn't think about it to consider what would be more "satisfying". It is as much a part of me as my considerable height, my hauntingly deep brown eyes, my distinguished greying but complete head of hair, and my chiseled, rugged good looks. I see no reason to suggest the same wouldn't apply for anyone of any other sexual orientation, or any other trait they didn't choose, but were born possessing.

The evidence suggests people are not born with their sexual orientation (20% concordance for monozygotic twins and homosexuality). I don't think it's a choice; I don't think anything's a choice actually - I don't believe in free will - we are but leaves tossed in the wind, however much we might wish to have agency.

I'm not wound up.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#154  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 23, 2017 6:51 pm

The_Metatron wrote:
Rubbish.

No; I'm pretty convinced it's the truth.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#155  Postby Beatsong » Jul 23, 2017 7:00 pm

Keep It Real wrote:After posting in another thread it seems to me there is a large environmental component in sexual orientation formation. Would not a Darwinian organism wish to avoid exposure to possibly transmissible homosexuality memes?


What the fuck is a "Darwinian organism"?

I'm not homophobic...


LOL. "I'm not racist but..."


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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#156  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 23, 2017 7:05 pm

Beatsong wrote:
Cunt.


How very tiny of you.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#157  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 23, 2017 7:14 pm

Beatsong wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:After posting in another thread it seems to me there is a large environmental component in sexual orientation formation. Would not a Darwinian organism wish to avoid exposure to possibly transmissible homosexuality memes?


Anyway; I've moved away from that now - the fact many people aren't homophobic (including myself) would seem to negate the evolutionary psychology explanation for it.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#158  Postby scott1328 » Jul 23, 2017 9:03 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Beatsong wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:After posting in another thread it seems to me there is a large environmental component in sexual orientation formation. Would not a Darwinian organism wish to avoid exposure to possibly transmissible homosexuality memes?


Anyway; I've moved away from that now - the fact many people aren't homophobic (including myself) would seem to negate the evolutionary psychology explanation for it.

Your posting history indicates that you are the worst kind of homophobe.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#159  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 23, 2017 9:26 pm

You don't think that people can change? I swear down I'm not homophobic anymore. Homophobia is a hideous blite which need be annihilated. I used to suffer from it - but no more. The way I got over it is through not minding if I was gay. All throughout my formative youth I was exposed to the view that homosexuality is an abhorrence. I've beaten that now though. Please don't bear me any malice scott1328.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#160  Postby Keep It Real » Jul 23, 2017 10:31 pm

Fucking hell; maybe all my explanations for homophobia are bullshit, and the simple fact is that I was conditioned to think homosexuality was wrong...maybe not - but I'm open to the possibility.
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