The ego isn't the soul. The ego is the self-deceiver that deflects us from the full reality of the soul.

Down the rabbit hole we go...

I mean, consider...

I try to avoid considering Prince whenever possible.

Okay, wow, I have a lot of questions. Number one: how dare you?

SafeAsMilk wrote:I'm a bit confused because here you say you don't advocate what I quoted you saying, and then you follow that statement with a declaration of pretty much exactly the same thing as what I quoted you saying. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "advocate"?

What I meant, although I admit it wasn't completely clear from the grammar I used, is that the homophobe fears he harbours invisible repressed homosexual desires; not that he actually does harbour such desires.

Spinozasgalt wrote:The ego isn't the soul. The ego is the self-deceiver that deflects us from the full reality of the soul.

You what? So could you describe this soul of yours then please Spinny?

Spinozasgalt wrote:I mean, consider...

Nope - don't get it - complete non-sequitur IMO. Much better than Tom's version anyway though still.

Spinozasgalt wrote:Okay, wow, I have a lot of questions. Number one: how dare you?

I am a Daring Do by nature!

Also I figure there's enough people that consider him, I don't have to.

Keep It Real wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:I'm a bit confused because here you say you don't advocate what I quoted you saying, and then you follow that statement with a declaration of pretty much exactly the same thing as what I quoted you saying. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "advocate"?

What I meant, although I admit it wasn't completely clear from the grammar I used, is that the homophobe fears he harbours invisible repressed homosexual desires; not that he actually does harbour such desires.

Oh, I see. Hm, well the idea of fearing you have a desire that you don't have seems strange to me, and I doubt that many people experience that fear based solely on the fact that they find gay sex repulsive. But maybe others have had this experience?

I have several older male relatives who are homophobic. I know exactly how they describe the source of their homophobia.

The bottom line is the thought of the act disgusts them.

SafeAsMilk wrote:Hm, well the idea of fearing you have a desire that you don't have seems strange to me, and I doubt that many people experience that fear based solely on the fact that they find gay sex repulsive. But maybe others have had this experience?

But because there is this popular idea in current culture that homosexual desires can be repressed and that one can be in denial to the point that one is completely unaware of their true, buried orientation. People don't know that they don't harbour hidden homosexual desires; and watching gay images/accepting homosexuality is perfectly fine or imagining homosexuality is frightening/repulsive/disgusting to them because they fear that being exposed to/tolerating/accepting such things will "bring out their true gay orientation". This isn't a problem if one truly doesn't mind if one is in fact gay. Many people aren't there yet however IMO. It's strange because the idea of repression is Freudian in origin and many of his theories have been ditched..I am not aware of any reliable evidence for the existence of repressed sexual orientation..I don't know if he ever said sexual orientation could be repressed but I believe that idea primarily survives in modern culture because that idea supports gays in that homophobia is largely buried/muted/neutered because to admit to it or act on it is to be judged to be a repressed gay - the last thing the homophobe wants. Could be wrong

Thommo wrote:I have several older male relatives who are homophobic. I know exactly how they describe the source of their homophobia.

The bottom line is the thought of the act disgusts them.

That's been my experience with older relatives as well, both male and female. Whether they're harboring latent homosexual urges, or whether they secretly fear they harbor those urges even though they've never experienced them, I can't say. But it seems unlikely.

I wonder if they find watching/imagining non-human animals having sex disgusting.

Keep It Real wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:Hm, well the idea of fearing you have a desire that you don't have seems strange to me, and I doubt that many people experience that fear based solely on the fact that they find gay sex repulsive. But maybe others have had this experience?

But because there is this popular idea in current culture that homosexual desires can be repressed and that one can be in denial to the point that one is completely unaware of their true, buried orientation. People don't know that they don't harbour hidden homosexual desires; and watching gay images/accepting homosexuality is perfectly fine or imagining homosexuality is frightening/repulsive/disgusting to them because they fear that being exposed to/tolerating/accepting such things will "bring out their true gay orientation". This isn't a problem if one truly doesn't mind if one is in fact gay. Many people aren't there yet however IMO. It's strange because the idea of repression is Freudian in origin and many of his theories have been ditched..I am not aware of any reliable evidence for the existence of repressed sexual orientation..I don't know if he ever said sexual orientation could be repressed but I believe that idea primarily survives in modern culture because that idea supports gays in that homophobia is largely buried/muted/neutered because to admit to it or act on it is to be judged to be a repressed gay - the last thing the homophobe wants. Could be wrong

Wait; let me get this straight (no pun intended): There's a stigma attached to gay sex because there's a stigma attached to gay sex. Have I about summed it up for ya?

The repression is about the stigma, but that is not a deep psychiatric insight. You can dress it up all you like from there, including being repelled by thinking about it because of the stigma.

Or you can say how much or how little you are sexually stimulated by the prospect of sex with various genders. Consensually, of course.

Na - there's stigma attached to gay sex cos of the fucking bible - and we're still suffering fallout from it I'm afraid and you know of course that homosexuality was illegal in the west until very recently. Gay was an insult when I was growing up, and I hear it still from time to time. I've heard of modern primary school children chasing each other around the playground shouting "you're gay!" "No you're gay!"

I'm not sure repression of homosexual desires exists at all TBH Cito.

Keep It Real wrote:Na - there's stigma attached to gay sex cos of the fucking bible

Why don't you leave that to the people who read the bible? It's not illegal any more where you live, and although you have to listen to those sorts of people, you don't have to kowtow to them if gay sex is what you really crave.

That doesn't, however, seem to be the main point you're trying to make in this thread, and is quite distant from where you started out:

Keep It Real wrote:After posting in another thread it seems to me there is a large environmental component in sexual orientation formation. Would not a Darwinian organism wish to avoid exposure to possibly transmissible homosexuality memes? I'm not homophobic but I think it is understandable. I don't know why I'm not homophobic. It seems understandable to me.

Or maybe it isn't, and you're publicly trying to come to terms with something. You do know why you're not homophobic. At the very least, it's because you don't believe in religious strictures against homosexuality.

All my posts in this thread up until this one the other day were the results of my not thinking clearly because I was zombied out on antipsychotics. I retract them all and ask that everybody please ignore them. Thanks.

The anal sex argument is somewhat fallacious because not all gay men actually have
it but I think homophobes would be no less homophobic even if no gay men had anal