Understanding Homophobia

Its causes and possible cures

Studies of mental functions, behaviors and the nervous system.

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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#21  Postby Sendraks » May 28, 2015 11:19 am

Keep It Real wrote:
Rachel Bronwyn wrote:People have non-procreative intercourse every time they successfully use contraception.

It feels like procreative intercourse though.


My partner is sterilised. The sex does not feel procreative to me and has nothing about procreation to it. That would be a major turnoff for us both. Furthermore there is far more to sex than penis inserted into vagina and all of that stuff, has absolutely nothing to do with procreation.

Basically you're talking shite.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#22  Postby LoneWolfEburg » May 28, 2015 1:44 pm

I don't know why I'm not homophobic. It seems understandable to me.

So, you yourself are a counter-example to your reasoning on how Darwinian organisms should feel. Furthermore, since a lot of people are not homophobic, you can't be said to represent an extremely unique anomaly in this regard. Consequently, it appears that your initial premises are flawed, and Darwinian organisms, for good or for ill, do not operate the way you assume them to - not always, at least.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#23  Postby Matthew Shute » May 28, 2015 3:45 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Rachel Bronwyn wrote:People have non-procreative intercourse every time they successfully use contraception.

It feels like procreative intercourse though.


What does that even mean?

"Well, it sure feels like I'm making you pregnant, here. Phew." :eh:
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#24  Postby Sendraks » May 28, 2015 3:46 pm

Matthew Shute wrote:"Well, it sure feels like I'm making you pregnant, here. Phew." :eh:


I'm sure that to someone, somewhere, this line would be a turn on. :yuk:
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#25  Postby Keep It Real » May 31, 2015 12:58 pm

LoneWolfEburg wrote:
I don't know why I'm not homophobic. It seems understandable to me.

So, you yourself are a counter-example to your reasoning on how Darwinian organisms should feel. Furthermore, since a lot of people are not homophobic, you can't be said to represent an extremely unique anomaly in this regard. Consequently, it appears that your initial premises are flawed, and Darwinian organisms, for good or for ill, do not operate the way you assume them to - not always, at least.

That's the mystery in my mind - why everybody isn't homophobic. Maybe some people are so sure of their sexual orientation they refuse to believe they could catch teh gay. Perhaps we're right; perhaps not.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#26  Postby Thomas Eshuis » May 31, 2015 1:00 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
LoneWolfEburg wrote:
I don't know why I'm not homophobic. It seems understandable to me.

So, you yourself are a counter-example to your reasoning on how Darwinian organisms should feel. Furthermore, since a lot of people are not homophobic, you can't be said to represent an extremely unique anomaly in this regard. Consequently, it appears that your initial premises are flawed, and Darwinian organisms, for good or for ill, do not operate the way you assume them to - not always, at least.

That's the mystery in my mind - why everybody isn't homophobic. Maybe some people are so sure of their sexual orientation they refuse to believe they could catch teh gay. Perhaps we're right; perhaps not.

Perhaps people don't actually think it's wrong/bad/whatever to be non-straight.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#27  Postby Keep It Real » May 31, 2015 1:01 pm

Another possibility is that straight people simply love sex with the opposite sex and don't want to lose it.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#28  Postby Thomas Eshuis » May 31, 2015 1:02 pm

Keep It Real wrote:Another possibility is that straight people simply love sex with the opposite sex and don't want to lose it.

How is that a possibility for them not being homophobic?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#29  Postby Keep It Real » May 31, 2015 1:03 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:
LoneWolfEburg wrote:
I don't know why I'm not homophobic. It seems understandable to me.

So, you yourself are a counter-example to your reasoning on how Darwinian organisms should feel. Furthermore, since a lot of people are not homophobic, you can't be said to represent an extremely unique anomaly in this regard. Consequently, it appears that your initial premises are flawed, and Darwinian organisms, for good or for ill, do not operate the way you assume them to - not always, at least.

That's the mystery in my mind - why everybody isn't homophobic. Maybe some people are so sure of their sexual orientation they refuse to believe they could catch teh gay. Perhaps we're right; perhaps not.

Perhaps people don't actually think it's wrong/bad/whatever to be non-straight.

A plausible hypothesis...perhaps the winner.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#30  Postby Keep It Real » May 31, 2015 1:04 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:Another possibility is that straight people simply love sex with the opposite sex and don't want to lose it.

How is that a possibility for them not being homophobic?

could you rephrase that please; I don't understand :)
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#31  Postby Thomas Eshuis » May 31, 2015 1:07 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:Another possibility is that straight people simply love sex with the opposite sex and don't want to lose it.

How is that a possibility for them not being homophobic?

could you rephrase that please; I don't understand :)

I posted a possible explanation as to why people might not be homophobic.
Then you posted "Another possibility is that straight people simply love sex with the opposite sex and don't want to lose it", which seems a complete non-sequitur to me.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#32  Postby Keep It Real » May 31, 2015 1:08 pm

Oh right; no, that was a possible reason for people being homophobic.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#33  Postby Keep It Real » May 31, 2015 1:23 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:
LoneWolfEburg wrote:
I don't know why I'm not homophobic. It seems understandable to me.

So, you yourself are a counter-example to your reasoning on how Darwinian organisms should feel. Furthermore, since a lot of people are not homophobic, you can't be said to represent an extremely unique anomaly in this regard. Consequently, it appears that your initial premises are flawed, and Darwinian organisms, for good or for ill, do not operate the way you assume them to - not always, at least.

That's the mystery in my mind - why everybody isn't homophobic. Maybe some people are so sure of their sexual orientation they refuse to believe they could catch teh gay. Perhaps we're right; perhaps not.

Perhaps people don't actually think it's wrong/bad/whatever to be non-straight.



This really rings true and I'm moving away from the OP - I might well have been talking shite Sendraks. I remember a time in my life when I was homophobic - I was at sea in my life and doubted everything - even my own sexuality, I had the opinion that there was something wrong with homosexuality and feared it within myself. Two things have changed since then - I'm sure I'm (currently) straight and I don't think there's anything wrong with homosexuality. The latter seems the more important factor but it's hard to tell.

It seems then that homophobia as I see it at the moment is caused by people doubting their own sexuality and thinking there is something wrong with homosexuality. Removing either of these would result in no homophobia I think. Religious homophobia is something else - just doctrine.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#34  Postby Thomas Eshuis » May 31, 2015 1:25 pm

Sendraks? :confused:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#35  Postby Keep It Real » May 31, 2015 1:27 pm

Sendraks wrote:
Basically you're talking shite.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#36  Postby Willie71 » Jun 15, 2015 12:58 am

Considering the number of species that homosexual activity has been identified in, there is no reason to think homophobia is anything more than an artificial social construct, used by powerful men to create an outgroup for political gain.

Bonobos regularly engage in bisexual, or even homosexual behaviour, and they are one of our closest relatives. I'm no expert, but I do not think there is aversion to this behaviour in bonobos. I'll have to look that up. I'm curious now.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#37  Postby Darwinsbulldog » Jun 15, 2015 4:17 am

I think that homophobia is exclusively based on religious dogma. Religious dogma has dominated all cultures for thousands of years, because it is an excellent carrot and stick to control the tribe. A tribe united in purpose will tend to survive. Unfortunately, it was only the more modern Anthropologists that could look at cultures in a relatively objective, or at least intersubjective sense, and by that time, most tribes with more pluralistic world views on deities and empirical evidence had either vanished or radically changed in their original character.

Humans, being animals that can model their modelling, often ask existential questions, and religion have been quick to answer such questions, but in an authoritative, rather than in an empirical manner. As monotheistic religions took hold, there was less and less diversity of opinion on these existential questions, as religions plagiarized and adapted origin stories for their own ends.

Science has been chipping away at these "supernaturalistic" claims made by religions. suggesting natural causes for many puzzles of existence, including the origin of life, and the significance of death and sex in our history.

Another cultural trend is the magnification of sexually dimorphic traits. Men are generally larger and more powerful, but in some sense, so anxious about female power [particularly in reproduction], that they seek to deny it, or denigrate it. Women are seen as something inferior, and homosexuality was one escape from this dilemma that females a both essential and attractive, but also highly flawed human beings, if indeed they are regarded as human beings at all.
But the essence of the matter is social control. Homophobia is just one more way to have control over sex. Love between humans is also hijacked, and directed to the deity. If a religion can control sex, then it can re-direct these energies into the service of god, or rather, the service of lessor beings in conforming to, or even promoting the wishes of the leadership.

In short, religion is a tool to control the masses from cradle to grave, and [absurdly] beyond.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#38  Postby Sendraks » Jun 15, 2015 8:59 am

Keep It Real wrote:
Sendraks wrote:
Basically you're talking shite.


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Thanks - you have performed the role of my proxy admirably.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#39  Postby Sendraks » Jun 15, 2015 9:00 am

Here's how to resolve homophobia.

1) People stop raising their children to believe that there is something wrong with homosexuals.
2) Children grow up not to be prejudiced towards homosexuals.
3) Everyone is happy.
"One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion." - Arthur C Clarke

"'Science doesn't know everything' - Well science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it'd stop" - Dara O'Brian
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#40  Postby Doubtdispelled » Jun 15, 2015 9:36 am

Darwinsbulldog wrote:
Another cultural trend is the magnification of sexually dimorphic traits. Men are generally larger and more powerful, but in some sense, so anxious about female power [particularly in reproduction], that they seek to deny it, or denigrate it. Women are seen as something inferior, and homosexuality was one escape from this dilemma that females a both essential and attractive, but also highly flawed human beings, if indeed they are regarded as human beings at all.


I'm quoting this because I want to know what the reaction is to a man saying it.
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