Understanding Homophobia

Its causes and possible cures

Studies of mental functions, behaviors and the nervous system.

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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#261  Postby Thommo » Oct 31, 2017 4:20 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Thommo wrote:
Thommo wrote:
Correct I don't give much of a fuck about spelling. Never have; never will. As long as the semantics are preserved who really gives a fuck? Are you seriously suggesting you think I'm stupid? SERIOUSLY!?


Actually, I was just answering a question you asked in another thread:-

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/post2 ... l#p2593904

Take that feeling you've got now, imagine that the former girlfriend felt that way. Or, I dunno, maybe you're just a player hater and jealous of our superior spelling skills or something.

I guess either conclusion is fine.

Nope - I wasn't hating Thommo, I was just kicking off because I'm so frustrated by people in this threads wilful blinkered reluctance to see sense and constant accusations at me that I am being thick/blinkered/stupid.


But your ex girlfriend, she admitted she was hating right? She didn't say she felt frustrated or that you were constantly accusing her of being thick/blinkered/stupid?

I think it's so weird that even having been through the exact experience you can't empathise with her and see there's another perspective (in that thread and in this one) that you're completely ignoring. That maybe (exactly like you) she was pissed off at being made to feel small and wasn't marveling in jealousy of your incredible intellect (just like you're not doing to us, despite knowing that you spelled the word wrong). I can only imagine what your reaction would have been if I'd pointed out the error in your new post (and there was at least one) instead of instantly explaining why I'd posted what I did.

The fact is that neither of us mentioned anything like "stupidity" and you immediately felt very belittled and even used the forum EQUIVALENT OF RAISING YOUR VOICE for emphasis.

The fact is, in this thread, there's no evidence of homosexual behaviour in the vast majority of men, whether homophobic or not. Insisting against the evidence that they have homosexual urges just seems deliberately silly to me. But truthfully, I feel little urge to understand homophobia. I expect in another life I could have been conditioned into it, but thankfully I wasn't (well, insofar as I'm wholly opposed to discrimination against gays of any kind) and the story ends there.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#262  Postby surreptitious57 » Oct 31, 2017 4:24 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
where is the evidence or rational that sexuality can be or is ever repressed from consciousness

I did not mean repressed from consciousness only from society. But not everyone realises their orientation in their teens
Some men have wives and children before they come out as gay. Whether they are repressing their sexuality I cannot say
Though repressing aspects of ones psyche is something that can be done where said aspect for whatever reason cannot be tolerated by the conscious mind though it can cause more trauma and so therapy would be a better option than repression
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#263  Postby Keep It Real » Oct 31, 2017 4:24 pm

Insisting against the evidence that they have homosexual urges just seems deliberately silly to me.

Agreed. :thumbup:
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#264  Postby Keep It Real » Oct 31, 2017 4:40 pm

Through the medieval period, homosexuality was generally condemned and thought to be the moral of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#265  Postby Keep It Real » Oct 31, 2017 4:46 pm

Some argue that the latent homosexuality is a potentially iatrogenic effect (that is, it is not present until suggested by a therapist).[citation needed] Others argue that the term latent is not truly applicable in the case of homosexual urges, since they are often not in the unconscious or unexpressed category, but rather exist in the conscious mind and are (often violently) repressed on a conscious level.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#266  Postby SafeAsMilk » Oct 31, 2017 4:51 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
it has been found that Ancient Egyptian society was familiar with homosexuality as a cultural norm and practice, manifested in various artifacts and historical evidence.


https://raseef22.com/en/culture/2017/04/12/many-faces-homosexuality-ancient-egypt/

I'm not sure why you think showing that some societies in the past were to some degree accepting of homosexuality defeats my point and affirms yours.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#267  Postby Keep It Real » Oct 31, 2017 5:01 pm

Because the evidence (or lack thereof) implies that homosexuality has only been widely stigmatised, causing revulsion, possibly only VERY recently since Freud invented/discovered repression (homosexuality repression (sic) can't find a reference for that) bringing about modern homophobia IMO. There was some vilification of the receiving male as he was perceived as being feminised sometimes pre-bible and some Greeks "disliked" homosexuality but that really is about it. Homsexuality has only been widely despised/made illegal since the bible.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#268  Postby Thommo » Oct 31, 2017 5:14 pm

None of that is true at all.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#269  Postby Keep It Real » Oct 31, 2017 5:18 pm

Perhaps the ancient Greeks who disliked homosexuality were just a pathetic contemptible bunch of egotistical pussies? Dunno..
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#270  Postby Thommo » Oct 31, 2017 5:35 pm

I think there's maybe a position in between the two possible extremes.

Maybe some ancient Greeks had different opinions from some other ancient Greeks, or something.

It's not like there's a whole lot of historical literature dating from before the old testament by which we can form reliable sociological conclusions, after all.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#271  Postby Keep It Real » Oct 31, 2017 5:40 pm

(The term homophobia was invented) by George Weinberg, a psychologist, in the 1960s
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#272  Postby Keep It Real » Oct 31, 2017 5:46 pm

Another explanation of these data is found in Barlow, Sakheim, and Beck's (1983) theory of the role of anxiety and attention in sexual responding. It is possible that viewing homosexual stimuli causes negative emotions such as anxiety in homophobic men but not in nonhomophobic men. Because anxiety has been shown to enhance arousal and erection, this theory would predict increases in erection in homophobic men


Well that kills the widely accepted theory that homophobic male show penile circumference increase when viewing homosexual images because of repressed homosexuality.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#273  Postby Thommo » Oct 31, 2017 5:56 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
(The term homophobia was invented) by George Weinberg, a psychologist, in the 1960s


Are you suggesting there was no homophobia before the word was invented?
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#274  Postby Keep It Real » Oct 31, 2017 6:00 pm

Not quite. The term arrived a few years after Freud invented/discovered (sic) repressed homosexuality.
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#275  Postby TopCat » Oct 31, 2017 6:35 pm

.. deleted, missed a load of thread pages
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#276  Postby scott1328 » Oct 31, 2017 7:01 pm

I think a more nuanced approach to terminology can help in this discussion.

Consider a distinction between homophobia, heterosexism, and sexual prejudice

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/h ... _defn.html
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#277  Postby Keep It Real » Oct 31, 2017 7:32 pm

Very interesting scott, nice 1 :thumbup:
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#278  Postby Keep It Real » Oct 31, 2017 7:33 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Another explanation of these data is found in Barlow, Sakheim, and Beck's (1983) theory of the role of anxiety and attention in sexual responding. It is possible that viewing homosexual stimuli causes negative emotions such as anxiety in homophobic men but not in nonhomophobic men. Because anxiety has been shown to enhance arousal and erection, this theory would predict increases in erection in homophobic men


Well that kills the widely accepted theory that homophobic male show penile circumference increase when viewing homosexual images because of repressed homosexuality.


Isn't there a big piece of art on a hill somewhere of a warrior with an erection caused by his anger/aggression/anxiety? Can't find it...
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#279  Postby scott1328 » Oct 31, 2017 7:35 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:
Another explanation of these data is found in Barlow, Sakheim, and Beck's (1983) theory of the role of anxiety and attention in sexual responding. It is possible that viewing homosexual stimuli causes negative emotions such as anxiety in homophobic men but not in nonhomophobic men. Because anxiety has been shown to enhance arousal and erection, this theory would predict increases in erection in homophobic men


Well that kills the widely accepted theory that homophobic male show penile circumference increase when viewing homosexual images because of repressed homosexuality.


Isn't there a big piece of art on a hill somewhere of a warrior with an erection caused by his anger/aggression/anxiety? Can't find it...

Image
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Re: Understanding Homophobia

#280  Postby Keep It Real » Oct 31, 2017 7:40 pm

Ah yes that's the one, cheers scott.
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