Violence and Sexuality

Is there a relationship?

Studies of mental functions, behaviors and the nervous system.

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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#41  Postby tuco » May 20, 2017 11:13 am

Keep It Real wrote:Then there's all the violence in films - it's ubiquitous. There's also the rise of MMA, boxing, kick boxing etc....people just get off on violence - why else would it be so prevalent in the culture? What's the appeal? All this talk about what women find appealing in men is something of a distraction from the purpose of this thread - it's more about the overriding association between violence and sexuality. I think we like watching violence (in general) because it reminds us of the struggle for sexual supremacy. Stereotypically men like violence more than women do, presumably because they're more genetically invested in participating in the battle for sexual supremacy, but some women like it too, possibly because they like to be close to the hotbed of competition. It's all a tragedy of evolution. Nature is red in tooth and claw.


I will take a wild guess, and will also welcome correction/addition as it does not compute to me, that people like to be lets say shocked (violence) or scared (horror) by movies.

Personally, it does not work for me. Watching people suffer, be it in a movie, does not make me feel well. When I was a kid I was not subjected to almost any movies with violence as for some reason communists were not making violent movies and lets say Hollywood ones were not available. However, I've seen good chunk of war and holocaust docus and it made me feel so bad that I became pacifist ( I reason). So much for cool story.

So yes, why are some people fascinated by violence in movies?
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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#42  Postby Macdoc » May 20, 2017 11:34 am

However, I've seen good chunk of war and holocaust docus and it made me feel so bad that I became pacifist ( I reason


You REALLY will want to watch Hacksaw Ridge
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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#43  Postby tuco » May 20, 2017 11:53 am

Thanks, seen it. Tho I probably do not have such courage/conviction and would pick up a gun and shoot. /shrugs
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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#44  Postby Matthew Shute » May 20, 2017 1:26 pm

The holocaust is probably the best known example of why pacifism is such an untenable response to genocidal barbarism. If you find yourself on the road to a Nazi extermination camp, you'd better hope like fuck that there isn't just a coalition of pacifists trying to non-violently stop the Nazis. That coalition of halo-polishers isn't going to endure for very long against the SS.

You can imagine for yourself Adolf Hiter's expression if he'd actually bothered reading Gandhi's letter (apparently he didn't). A malevolent smirk and a shake of the head is how I see that going down:

[Reveal] Spoiler: Gandhi's letter to Hitler
DEAR FRIEND,

That I address you as a friend is no formality. I own no foes. My business in life has been for the past 33 years to enlist the friendship of the whole of humanity by befriending mankind, irrespective of race, colour or creed.

I hope you will have the time and desire to know how a good portion of humanity who have view living under the influence of that doctrine of universal friendship view your action. We have no doubt about your bravery or devotion to your fatherland, nor do we believe that you are the monster described by your opponents. But your own writings and pronouncements and those of your friends and admirers leave no room for doubt that many of your acts are monstrous and unbecoming of human dignity, especially in the estimation of men like me who believe in universal friendliness. Such are your humiliation of Czechoslovakia, the rape of Poland and the swallowing of Denmark. I am aware that your view of life regards such spoliations as virtuous acts. But we have been taught from childhood to regard them as acts degrading humanity. Hence we cannot possibly wish success to your arms.

But ours is a unique position. We resist British Imperialism no less than Nazism. If there is a difference, it is in degree. One-fifth of the human race has been brought under the British heel by means that will not bear scrutiny. Our resistance to it does not mean harm to the British people. We seek to convert them, not to defeat them on the battle-field. Ours is an unarmed revolt against the British rule. But whether we convert them or not, we are determined to make their rule impossible by non-violent non-co-operation. It is a method in its nature indefensible. It is based on the knowledge that no spoliator can compass his end without a certain degree of co-operation, willing or compulsory, of the victim. Our rulers may have our land and bodies but not our souls. They can have the former only by complete destruction of every Indian—man, woman and child. That all may not rise to that degree of heroism and that a fair amount of frightfulness can bend the back of revolt is true but the argument would be beside the point. For, if a fair number of men and women be found in India who would be prepared without any ill will against the spoliators to lay down their lives rather than bend the knee to them, they would have shown the way to freedom from the tyranny of violence. I ask you to believe me when I say that you will find an unexpected number of such men and women in India. They have been having that training for the past 20 years.

We have been trying for the past half a century to throw off the British rule. The movement of independence has been never so strong as now. The most powerful political organization, I mean the Indian National Congress, is trying to achieve this end. We have attained a very fair measure of success through non-violent effort. We were groping for the right means to combat the most organized violence in the world which the British power represents. You have challenged it. It remains to be seen which is the better organized, the German or the British. We know what the British heel means for us and the non-European races of the world. But we would never wish to end the British rule with German aid. We have found in non-violence a force which, if organized, can without doubt match itself against a combination of all the most violent forces in the world. In non-violent technique, as I have said, there is no such thing as defeat. It is all ‘do or die’ without killing or hurting. It can be used practically without money and obviously without the aid of science of destruction which you have brought to such perfection. It is a marvel to me that you do not see that it is nobody’s monopoly. If not the British, some other power will certainly improve upon your method and beat you with your own weapon. You are leaving no legacy to your people of which they would feel proud. They cannot take pride in a recital of cruel deed, however skilfully planned. I, therefore, appeal to you in the name of humanity to stop the war. You will lose nothing by referring all the matters of dispute between you and Great Britain to an international tribunal of your joint choice. If you attain success in the war, it will not prove that you were in the right. It will only prove that your power of destruction was greater. Whereas an award by an impartial tribunal will show as far as it is humanly possible which party was in the right.

You know that not long ago I made an appeal to every Briton to accept my method of non-violent resistance. I did it because the British know me as a friend though a rebel. I am a stranger to you and your people. I have not the courage to make you the appeal I made to every Briton. Not that it would not apply to you with the same force as to the British. But my present proposal is much simple because much more practical and familiar.

During this season when the hearts of the peoples of Europe yearn for peace, we have suspended even our own peaceful struggle. Is it too much to ask you to make an effort for peace during a time which may mean nothing to you personally but which must mean much to the millions of Europeans whose dumb cry for peace I hear, for my ears are attended to hearing the dumb millions? I had intended to address a joint appeal to you and Signor Mussolini, whom I had the privilege of meeting when I was in Rome during my visit to England as a delegate to the Round Table Conference. I hope that he will take this as addressed to him also with the necessary changes.

I am,

Your sincere friend,

M. K. GANDHI


Here was this champion of pacifism's advice to the German Jews:

[Reveal] Spoiler: Gandih's advice
Can the Jews resist this organized and shameless persecution? Is there a way to preserve their self-respect, and not to feel helpless, neglected and forlorn? I submit there is. ... If I were a Jew and were born in Germany ... I would claim Germany as my home even as the tallest gentile German may, and challenge him to shoot me or cast me in the dungeon. ... And suffering voluntarily undergone will bring them an inner strength and joy. ... The calculated violence of Hitler may even result in a general massacre of the Jews by way of his first answer to the declaration of such hostilities. But if the Jewish mind could be prepared for voluntary suffering, even the massacre I have imagined could be turned into a day of thanksgiving and joy that Jehovah had wrought deliverance of the race even at the hands of the tyrant.


Hacksaw Ridge was an interesting film. You could do a Kantian kind of thought experiment, imagining an entire army composed of outstandingly courageous pacifists with no guns, standing opposed to Japan's army, very much willing to use guns. Try to picture how it might play out. It's true that Japan's militaristic empire building at the time would have been relatively bloodless. For the Japanese, at least.
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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#45  Postby I'm With Stupid » May 20, 2017 5:00 pm

tuco wrote:However, I've seen good chunk of war and holocaust docus and it made me feel so bad that I became pacifist ( I reason). So much for cool story.

So yes, why are some people fascinated by violence in movies?

I don't think you're meant to watch Schindler's List and come out of it thinking that all of the violence was great fun. I think that's kind of the idea. The same with most of the Vietnam war films too.
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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#46  Postby tuco » May 20, 2017 5:17 pm

Schindler's List is a cool story, just like Hacksaw Ridge, and not a good example of violence in movies I was thinking about when replying to Keep It Real.

Apparently, Schindler's List did not make this list: http://www.gamesradar.com/30-most-violent-movies/ which is the kind of movies, shock - horror, I was talking about. But as Keep It Real reckoned, violence is common in movies in general and it is the added value of violence in movies I was questioning. There is no need to question it in Schindler's List or Hacksaw Ridge.
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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#47  Postby proudfootz » May 23, 2017 1:13 pm

I can only add another data point - anecdotal evidence that several women of my acquaintance have no apparent problem hooking up with a male that doesn't beat them up or threaten violence to anyone else either.

I'm a little skeptical of the idea of trying to map behavior as described by biologists from other species onto humans, as there can be wildly divergent behaviors from one species to another - as already noted between one species of chimpanzee to another.
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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#48  Postby Rumraket » Jun 01, 2017 12:48 pm

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:As long as you know better than actual, real women!

IMPOSTOR! :grin:
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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#49  Postby Rumraket » Jun 01, 2017 12:52 pm

I stoppped trying to figure out human sexuality in my early days on the internet when I first came across a video of a man apparently of his own free will having a woman step on his testicles with heels, then proceeding to "masturbate" by inserting a burning wax candle in his urethra. I gave up then and there.
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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#50  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 01, 2017 1:08 pm

What ever turns you on. :lol: Rather him than me. Very eye watering.
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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#51  Postby Rumraket » Jun 01, 2017 1:11 pm

I like tits and pussy. Call me old fashioned. :dunno:
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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#52  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 01, 2017 1:12 pm

Rumraket wrote:I like tits and pussy. Call me old fashioned. :dunno:


I will not disagree with you for one moment sir!
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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#53  Postby zulumoose » Jun 01, 2017 1:35 pm

Legs, don't forget the legs!

And the collar bones, and the back of the neck, that hollow at the base of the spine ohhhh!

Excuse me for a moment......
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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#54  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Jun 01, 2017 1:58 pm

I've seen all those bits on dudes.
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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#55  Postby zulumoose » Jun 01, 2017 2:11 pm

It's the whole package. A curvaceous chrome bumper might look great on a sports car, and add to the aesthetic, but put the same bumper on a pickup truck and it just looks out of place.
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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#56  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Jun 01, 2017 2:17 pm

I think clavicles look pretty normal on men.
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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#57  Postby zulumoose » Jun 01, 2017 2:19 pm

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:I think clavicles look pretty normal on men.


They do, but on women they can look subtle, smooth, delicate, vulnerable, inviting....
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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#58  Postby laklak » Jun 01, 2017 2:27 pm

I like vaginas and I cannot lie.
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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#59  Postby zulumoose » Jun 01, 2017 2:31 pm

When I was in high school, a boy's school, we were talking once about what we found attractive in women (picture a bunch of pimply, horny teenage boys). The ONLY thing we could agree on was collar bones.
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Re: Violence and Sexuality

#60  Postby Cito di Pense » Jun 01, 2017 2:52 pm

laklak wrote:I like vaginas and I cannot lie.


Well, do it standing up, then.
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