What environmental factors influence sexual orientation?

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Re: What environmental factors influence sexual orientation?

#21  Postby crank » May 07, 2016 7:15 pm

tuco wrote:Will there be some kind of consensus after the bickering or can I just forget about this thread? Seriously. I am interested in consensus.



Oh, we thought you said 'contentiousness'
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Re: What environmental factors influence sexual orientation?

#22  Postby scott1328 » May 07, 2016 7:54 pm

KiR has been banging on about this topic in one way or another for a LONG time now. It is quite tiresome.

Igorfrankensteen: has anyone ever done a study into the unevidenced claim that all snowflakes are unique? What are your sources?
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Re: What environmental factors influence sexual orientation?

#23  Postby tuco » May 07, 2016 9:15 pm

Well, either its settled or there is debate. So far we have "identical twins are not identical" without any context, without any relation to the topic.
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Re: What environmental factors influence sexual orientation?

#24  Postby igorfrankensteen » May 08, 2016 1:58 am

tuco wrote:Will there be some kind of consensus after the bickering or can I just forget about this thread? Seriously. I am interested in consensus.



I think that the number of times I have seen ANYTHING approaching consensus on ANY thread subject here is close enough to zero that I would recommend against your hoping for such with this one.
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Re: What environmental factors influence sexual orientation?

#25  Postby scott1328 » May 08, 2016 2:48 am

igorfrankensteen wrote:
tuco wrote:Will there be some kind of consensus after the bickering or can I just forget about this thread? Seriously. I am interested in consensus.



I think that the number of times I have seen ANYTHING approaching consensus on ANY thread subject here is close enough to zero that I would recommend against your hoping for such with this one.

I think we can all agree on this one.
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Re: What environmental factors influence sexual orientation?

#26  Postby tuco » May 08, 2016 4:52 am

Aha .. now back on topic. What is the scientific consensus? I will repeat, "identical twins are not identical" does not refute the mentioned study about twins.
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Re: What environmental factors influence sexual orientation?

#27  Postby SafeAsMilk » May 08, 2016 7:59 pm

tuco wrote:Aha .. now back on topic. What is the scientific consensus? I will repeat, "identical twins are not identical" does not refute the mentioned study about twins.

I don't know, ever heard of Google? Why don't you look it up and tell us the answer. OP is just dying to know.
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Re: What environmental factors influence sexual orientation?

#28  Postby scott1328 » May 08, 2016 8:42 pm

As stated in other threads on this topic, the occurrence of homosexuality in the population at large is between 2 and 10%. That identical twins show a 20% concordance of itself shows a genetic component to sexuality, otherwise the rate of a homosexual person having a homosexual identical twin would be between 2 and 10%.
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Re: What environmental factors influence sexual orientation?

#29  Postby Hobbes Choice » May 08, 2016 10:22 pm

Keep It Real wrote:So an Australian twin study showed there is approximately a 20% concordance for monozygotic twins and homosexuality. Clearly the environment plays a large role in the development of sexual orientation. What factors are at play?


Please cite.
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Re: What environmental factors influence sexual orientation?

#30  Postby Hobbes Choice » May 08, 2016 10:24 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
ScholasticSpastic wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:So an Australian twin study showed there is approximately a 20% concordance for monozygotic twins and homosexuality. Clearly the environment plays a large role in the development of sexual orientation. What factors are at play?

It's not clear, though. The womb is an environment, and twins share it. Environmental influences should, therefor, be expected to increase twin concordance and thereby confound any conclusions we can draw about the genetic influences for homosexuality based upon concordance data. It's a riddle, wrapped in an enigma, pressing on a bladder.


I was more thinking of the post natal environment. 20% - and that includes all the shared environmental influences one would expect with twins.....something happens, and we don't yet know what it is! Intriguing!

Unless you cite the study it is not possible to assess its worth. For example does inter-utero influences count as 'environment'?
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Re: What environmental factors influence sexual orientation?

#31  Postby Hobbes Choice » May 08, 2016 10:29 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Tiny differences. How they could account for the 20% concordance figure is....fanciful, to put it lightly.


Where does this 20% come from exactly?
And how is "concordance" defined?

There are many subjective values used when reporting one's own sexuality, and few people are completely hetero, or homo-. Nor should we expect they should be.
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Re: What environmental factors influence sexual orientation?

#32  Postby igorfrankensteen » May 09, 2016 3:29 am

tuco wrote:Aha .. now back on topic. What is the scientific consensus? I will repeat, "identical twins are not identical" does not refute the mentioned study about twins.



Really? The alleged study, and your advocacy of it, is based entirely on the assumption that so-called identical twins are, in fact, truly identical.

That's your ENTIRE premise.

The fact that the fundamental element of your entire argument is FALSE, therefore means that the entire "study" HAS been refuted.

If you want to continue playing with this, you need to get into the details, INCLUDE the fact that "identical twins" is really more of a slang term than a rigorous scientific one, and then further expand the informational basis of the "study" to include with certainty, what exactly in our DNA does affect sexuality, so that you can finally derive a LEGITIMATE conclusion that remaining factors are environmental.

I would suggest, since that is currently impossible, since gene mapping has NOT told us what all the genes do, just what they are chemically...that you recognize that the conclusion you want to be able to decide about is currently unreachable.
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Re: What environmental factors influence sexual orientation?

#33  Postby tuco » May 09, 2016 5:36 pm

No.

I would suggest reading your own article.
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Re: What environmental factors influence sexual orientation?

#34  Postby laklak » May 09, 2016 5:54 pm

Drag show, plenty of tequila, a little MDMA...
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Re: What environmental factors influence sexual orientation?

#35  Postby Keep It Real » May 11, 2016 6:08 pm

Hobbes Choice wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:So an Australian twin study showed there is approximately a 20% concordance for monozygotic twins and homosexuality. Clearly the environment plays a large role in the development of sexual orientation. What factors are at play?


Please cite.



I have done. Read the thread.
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Re: What environmental factors influence sexual orientation?

#36  Postby Keep It Real » May 11, 2016 6:10 pm

scott1328 wrote:As stated in other threads on this topic, the occurrence of homosexuality in the population at large is between 2 and 10%. That identical twins show a 20% concordance of itself shows a genetic component to sexuality, otherwise the rate of a homosexual person having a homosexual identical twin would be between 2 and 10%.


No, because identical twins often share a very similar post-natal environment.
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Re: What environmental factors influence sexual orientation?

#37  Postby scott1328 » May 11, 2016 7:46 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
scott1328 wrote:As stated in other threads on this topic, the occurrence of homosexuality in the population at large is between 2 and 10%. That identical twins show a 20% concordance of itself shows a genetic component to sexuality, otherwise the rate of a homosexual person having a homosexual identical twin would be between 2 and 10%.


No, because identical twins often share a very similar post-natal environment.

Except that fraternal twins are raised in the same environment and show no "concordance" significantly different than the general population.
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