Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

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Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#1  Postby Keep It Real » Sep 10, 2014 5:30 pm

Using data from 2009 and 2011, the total UK prison population is around 97,000. As of 4 October 2011, the population of women in prison in the UK is 4,635.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_prison_population

Impossible to answer without being a bit sexist I guess, but such is life. Alpha male syndrome - pathological aversion to others' rules AKA the law? :ask:
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Re: Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#2  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Sep 10, 2014 8:13 pm

Development of the male brain and male hormones I'm sure are the largest contributors. Cultural norms probably contribute to the asymmetry as well.
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Re: Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#3  Postby lucek » Sep 11, 2014 12:03 am

CdesignProponentsist has it pretty well on. There is also a trend that more sympathetic and guilty people get go free and again culture tends to paint the women as the victims more often. Whole host of other reasons. So basically it's complicated. Do you want to take a 200 level coarse basically on this for an answer?
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Re: Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#4  Postby Keep It Real » Sep 11, 2014 12:28 am

What makes you assume the answer is complicated? Some males having a pathological aversion to rules and regulations - that makes sense and is simple. Also, the ladies love a bad boy - proper alphas respect no rules, even fight against them out of sheer bloody mindedness. Saying "it's down to brain development" is about as informative as a child's drawing at the Nobel prize for literature.

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Re: Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#5  Postby igorfrankensteen » Sep 11, 2014 12:36 am

One reason: men have been in charge of everything for a very long time, and they like to make rules that other men have to obey. More men act like men than do women, therefore fewer male laws are broken by women.

The fact that it is socially intrinsic for a man to DISPLAY that he is a man, and is powerful, by refusing to cooperate with other men...while it is socially intrinsic for women to prove themselves by actively cooperating, no doubt contributes at the other end of things.
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Re: Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#6  Postby Keep It Real » Sep 11, 2014 12:48 am

igorfrankensteen wrote:
The fact that it is socially intrinsic for a man to DISPLAY that he is a man, and is powerful, by refusing to cooperate with other men...while it is socially intrinsic for women to prove themselves by actively cooperating, no doubt contributes at the other end of things.


:thumbup:

Not that I'm cooperating you understand...
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Re: Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#7  Postby NuclMan » Sep 11, 2014 2:55 am

Who else is going to mind the young while a man is out hunting?
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Re: Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#8  Postby patriksveti » Sep 11, 2014 8:41 am

This is answered in Steven Pinker's The Blank Slate. Basically, males, and especially young males are much much more prone to violence, or disobedience than females and older males. Mostly to do with testosterone levels and overall evolution of the male brain as opposed to the female brain. Culture plays very little significance here, as all cultures exhibit similar numbers in favour of males in prison.
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Re: Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#9  Postby orpheus » Sep 11, 2014 2:13 pm

I don't know about the UK. If it's anything like the US, there are several other things to take into account:

1) So far we're talking about men and aggression. But what percentage of incarcerated men are in prison for non-violent crimes?

2) I suspect there's also a lot of circular reasoning at work: the common belief that men are intrinsically violent results in higher incarceration rates - even of men who are actually innocent. Then the fact that there are so many men in prison reinforces the belief that men are intrinsically violent.
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Re: Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#10  Postby mattthomas » Sep 11, 2014 4:02 pm

Well I recently sent a formal complaint to the Staffordshire police, accusing them of gender bias against me when dealing with assaults by my ex against me.

Times she has assaulted me: 4
Number of times I've had witnesses: 4
Number of times I've had physical injuries: 3
Times I've reported an assault: 4
Times she has been charged: 0

Times I've assaulted her: 0
Times she's made a false accusation of assault: 1
Times I've been charged: 1

I fully believe that the police and the CPS have a bias which skews figures before we even get to prison numbers.
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Re: Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#11  Postby I'm With Stupid » Sep 11, 2014 7:08 pm

That's definitely part of it. The criminal justice system certainly favours women, and a lot of that comes down to it reflecting society's attitude towards the genders. Having children is seen as a valid reason to get a lesser sentence if you're a woman, but I've never seen similar rules applied to male sentencing. And women are simply not seen as threatening, so accusations of assault are not taken as seriously if the suspect is female. But it's hardly enough to account for the difference.

It's also true that younger men commit a disproportionate amount of crime, and significantly violent crime, which is the sort of crime that we incarcerate people for. You've also got to consider the culture of criminal gangs, which basically rely on a very old-fashioned structure of demanding respect and cooperation by threats of violence. Naturally, it's men that are more likely to thrive under such a system, and therefore more likely to get involved in and caught for the sorts of serious crimes that result in a prison sentence.
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Re: Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#12  Postby orpheus » Sep 11, 2014 7:22 pm

I think speculation here is largely pointless without knowing statistics divided by kind of criminal act.
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Re: Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#13  Postby lucek » Sep 11, 2014 7:58 pm

Keep It Real wrote:What makes you assume the answer is complicated?

Because it is. Looking at one factor and saying this causes a larger phenomena kinda misses the point by a mile.
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Re: Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#14  Postby Ironclad » Sep 13, 2014 9:48 am


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Re: Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#15  Postby Keep It Real » Sep 14, 2014 9:32 pm

orpheus wrote:I think speculation here is largely pointless without knowing statistics divided by kind of criminal act.


I'm not so sure. I read the gender gap is widest for serious violent crime, however:

Criminologists agree that the gender gap in crime is universal: Women are always and everywhere less likely than men to commit criminal acts.


Except prostitution.

Total percentage of crimes committed by females in:
1960 - 11%
1975 - 15%
1990 - 19%


http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar_url?hl=en&q=http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/attachments/controversies/6741d1351433800-wiles-woman-research-statistics-represent-alternative-steffensmeier_allan.pdf&sa=X&scisig=AAGBfm3DWLmRXQSJ9HPHXnO_hIpHd4DUvA&oi=scholarr&ei=jf4VVLSGLcyh7AaXyoCoBg&ved=0CCIQgAMoATAA
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Re: Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#16  Postby epepke » Sep 15, 2014 7:11 am

Keep It Real wrote:What makes you assume the answer is complicated?


I don't know why he does, but there are some reasons I think that it's complicated.

First, in the US at least, female convicts are imprisoned for half the time as male convicts for the same crimes. (Incidentally, white male convicts are also imprisoned for half the time as black male convicts.)

Second, whenever this is mentioned, people come up with all sorts of reasons that this is perfectly understandable and justified, which further suggests bias.

Third, there's the Conyers and Conyers study, which shows that differential treatment of the sexes starts at birth.

Fourth, there's the fact that males are overwhelmingly preferred for military service, the draft, and dangerous occupations.
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Re: Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#17  Postby tuco » Sep 15, 2014 9:00 pm

Off topic removed? Is this some kind of joke? No do not react in this thread. Thanks.
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Re: Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#18  Postby patriksveti » Sep 16, 2014 8:23 am

There is no reason whatsoever to think that males and females are the same. There are biological differences, and naturally there are psychological differences aswell. The males are more prone to violence and drug misuse. This is simply a fact. Anyone who advocates completely same genders is deluded. Culture cannot be the cause of this large a margin of convictions. All cultures in the world are similar in this regard, however different they may be to each other.

People are so afraid of bias towards a certain group - males, whites and so on, that they are willing to convince themselves that all human "groups" are exactly the same in every regard. This is simply wrong. You cannot explain the world this way. There is a reason why certain professions are favored by women, and others by men. Favored - not made to work those professions.

There is no reason to judge individual males based on these statistics, like any other generalization - it cannot and should not be applied to individual human beings. But generaly speaking - men will always go to prison more than women. The same way as men will alway play video games more than women, and so on....
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Re: Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#19  Postby NuclMan » Sep 16, 2014 11:12 am

patriksveti wrote:There is no reason whatsoever to think that males and females are the same. There are biological differences, and naturally there are psychological differences aswell. The males are more prone to violence and drug misuse. This is simply a fact. Anyone who advocates completely same genders is deluded. Culture cannot be the cause of this large a margin of convictions. All cultures in the world are similar in this regard, however different they may be to each other.

People are so afraid of bias towards a certain group - males, whites and so on, that they are willing to convince themselves that all human "groups" are exactly the same in every regard. This is simply wrong. You cannot explain the world this way. There is a reason why certain professions are favored by women, and others by men. Favored - not made to work those professions.

There is no reason to judge individual males based on these statistics, like any other generalization - it cannot and should not be applied to individual human beings. But generaly speaking - men will always go to prison more than women. The same way as men will alway play video games more than women, and so on....


Deluded is thinking that the differences between genders are greater than the similarities. You're right in one respect though, that being females will always be the ones getting pregnant.
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Re: Why are there 20 times more male than female convicts?

#20  Postby patriksveti » Sep 16, 2014 12:06 pm

I never said at any point that the differences are greater than similarities. We are all homo sapiens. But there are people who deny the existence of ANY differences. One of which is the difference in incarceration tendencies. Similar to pregnancy tendencies....
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