Why Can't I stop?

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Why Can't I stop?

#1  Postby Clive Durdle » Aug 02, 2014 1:07 pm

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... 9zbQ1bQAbI

Are we thinking about OCD backwards?

05 August 2014 by Claire Gillan

Everyone knows that thoughts cause actions which cause habits. What if this is the wrong way round?

HAVE you ever wondered why you ended up at the office on a Sunday morning, when you were supposed to be heading to the supermarket? Why you find it so difficult to drive on the other side of the road when you are abroad? Or why you called your new partner by your old partner's name? These slips let us know that habits have been taking care of a lot of our actions without us knowing.

Such trivial errors seem a small price to pay for the benefit habits bring – freeing up brainpower to devote to non-repetitive tasks. But what if they weren't the only price? What if, without our knowledge, habits were shaping our beliefs and attitudes? My work is revealing the surprising power of habits.


I think this is onto something critically important.

Religions are often described as having two facets, the rituals and the beliefs - orthodoxy and orthopraxis.

What if the worries the thoughts the explanations are "just so" stories to explain obvious dissonances?

Maybe the power of religions and I think similar things like OCD is to do with fooling the mind into thinking thought is primary?

Is Descartes turning in his grave?
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Re: Why Can't I stop?

#2  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 02, 2014 4:47 pm

One problem here - OCD is a medical condition, habits are not.
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Re: Why Can't I stop?

#3  Postby Clive Durdle » Aug 02, 2014 7:27 pm

Why is that a problem?
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Re: Why Can't I stop?

#4  Postby laklak » Aug 02, 2014 10:25 pm

Biggest difference is there are good habits.
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The sky is falling! The sky is falling! - Chicken Little
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Re: Why Can't I stop?

#5  Postby Goldenmane » Aug 03, 2014 12:14 am

Clive Durdle wrote:http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329800.200-are-we-thinking-about-ocd-backwards.html#.U9zbQ1bQAbI

Are we thinking about OCD backwards?

05 August 2014 by Claire Gillan

Everyone knows that thoughts cause actions which cause habits. What if this is the wrong way round?

HAVE you ever wondered why you ended up at the office on a Sunday morning, when you were supposed to be heading to the supermarket? Why you find it so difficult to drive on the other side of the road when you are abroad? Or why you called your new partner by your old partner's name? These slips let us know that habits have been taking care of a lot of our actions without us knowing.

Such trivial errors seem a small price to pay for the benefit habits bring – freeing up brainpower to devote to non-repetitive tasks. But what if they weren't the only price? What if, without our knowledge, habits were shaping our beliefs and attitudes? My work is revealing the surprising power of habits.


I think this is onto something critically important.

Religions are often described as having two facets, the rituals and the beliefs - orthodoxy and orthopraxis.

What if the worries the thoughts the explanations are "just so" stories to explain obvious dissonances?

Maybe the power of religions and I think similar things like OCD is to do with fooling the mind into thinking thought is primary?

Is Descartes turning in his grave?


I haven't read the article quoted yet, and may be behind on the work it refers to, but I'll chime in with the caveat that I might be talking bollocks.

The power of habits, as referenced above, fits with my own understanding of how the 'conscious mind' may well be merely illusory, an ongoing 'just-so' story the brain generates in response to being unable to physically model itself in coherence with its model of its experience.

Descarte isn't turning in his grave, because he's fucking dead, and likely food for worms, and his ideas were fun nonsense.
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Re: Why Can't I stop?

#6  Postby jamest » Aug 03, 2014 1:00 am

Clive Durdle wrote:http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329800.200-are-we-thinking-about-ocd-backwards.html#.U9zbQ1bQAbI

Are we thinking about OCD backwards?

05 August 2014 by Claire Gillan

Everyone knows that thoughts cause actions which cause habits. What if this is the wrong way round?

HAVE you ever wondered why you ended up at the office on a Sunday morning, when you were supposed to be heading to the supermarket? Why you find it so difficult to drive on the other side of the road when you are abroad? Or why you called your new partner by your old partner's name? These slips let us know that habits have been taking care of a lot of our actions without us knowing.

Such trivial errors seem a small price to pay for the benefit habits bring – freeing up brainpower to devote to non-repetitive tasks. But what if they weren't the only price? What if, without our knowledge, habits were shaping our beliefs and attitudes? My work is revealing the surprising power of habits.


I think this is onto something critically important.

Religions are often described as having two facets, the rituals and the beliefs - orthodoxy and orthopraxis.

What if the worries the thoughts the explanations are "just so" stories to explain obvious dissonances?

Maybe the power of religions and I think similar things like OCD is to do with fooling the mind into thinking thought is primary?

Is Descartes turning in his grave?

Arse gravy... as hack would say. Where's the critical analysis of naive realism and/or materialism, as a habitual pattern of thought? That's right, it's fucking non-existent. /thread
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Re: Why Can't I stop?

#7  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 03, 2014 3:22 pm

Clive Durdle wrote:Why is that a problem?

As laklak said, there are good habits, which are generally a benefit, not a problem. Also, it means that the origin of OCD is not the same as that of habits. Learned habits must have appeared as command instincts disappeared (probably in the mammal-like reptiles, but not sure), because without either, you are vulnerable either to predators that don't behave as your instincts would need if you are to evade them, or to having to think too long and hard to figure out how to evade them. Both are serious survival issues, but they are different.
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Re: Why Can't I stop?

#8  Postby Steve » Aug 03, 2014 3:32 pm

Reference samskara. This idea is ancient.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny
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Re: Why Can't I stop?

#9  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 03, 2014 3:51 pm

Steve wrote:Reference samskara. This idea is ancient.

What idea? Obiously not the idea that having habits is the same as having OCD.
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Re: Why Can't I stop?

#10  Postby Steve » Aug 03, 2014 8:39 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
Steve wrote:Reference samskara. This idea is ancient.

What idea? Obiously not the idea that having habits is the same as having OCD.

No, the idea that the habits make the person, not the other way around. That is what samskara's are - habits. There are good ones and bad ones, and if you are someone super special you get to dispense with them completely, but that is not much help to those not super special.
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As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny
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Re: Why Can't I stop?

#11  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 05, 2014 6:22 pm

Steve wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
Steve wrote:Reference samskara. This idea is ancient.

What idea? Obiously not the idea that having habits is the same as having OCD.

No, the idea that the habits make the person, not the other way around. That is what samskara's are - habits. There are good ones and bad ones, and if you are someone super special you get to dispense with them completely, but that is not much help to those not super special.

No-one is "super special", Steve. Our habits are powerful, as is consistent with their evolution.
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