All-knowing, All-powerful & All-good

A small problem with various depictions of god.

Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Paganism, Taoism etc.

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All-knowing, All-powerful & All-good

#1  Postby LjSpike » Dec 14, 2016 9:26 pm

Now, before I get onto my point, I am not suggesting that god doesn't exist nor am I suggesting the contrary, just a problem in the portrayals of god.

If god is all-knowing, he/she knows whatever evil is happening. He/she would also know the way to stop that evil.
If god is all-powerful, he can perform any task necessary to stop evil, presuming he knows how to stop it.
If god is all-good, he will always attempt to stop evil.

We know however, the universe isn't all-good or all-kind, the fact that supposedly hell, and the devil exist, and that some people go to hell, means that not all evil has been stopped. Thus god either can't stop the evil, doesn't know how, or doesn't wish to. That eliminates him being all three of those traits. Albeit he could potentially be all-good and all-powerful simultaneously, or all-knowing and all-powerful.
There is a potential problem of him being all-knowing and all-good, as he would know of some evils, thus suggesting he may have some part of him which is "evil". Also, if he was all-good, all-knowing and all-powerful he would have stopped the devil from existing.
A potential idea in which god could exist is that god and the devil are one and the same, and eliminating the all-good trait. Alternatively he might just be quite good, quite powerful and quite knowledgeable, which would tie in with the possibility that it could have been an alien visitor many years ago, or a small group of individuals who were far more technologically advanced and for some reason disappeared (or hid away).

Anyway, I'd like to know the thoughts all of you have on this topic.
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Re: All-knowing, All-powerful & All-good

#2  Postby Fenrir » Dec 14, 2016 9:45 pm

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. 
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. 
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? 
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

- Epicurus 341-270 BCE (possibly misattributed)

Religion: it only fails when you test it.-Thunderf00t.
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Re: All-knowing, All-powerful & All-good

#3  Postby LjSpike » Dec 15, 2016 10:23 am

Fenrir wrote:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. 
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. 
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? 
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

- Epicurus 341-270 BCE (possibly misattributed)


Nice quote.
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Re: All-knowing, All-powerful & All-good

#4  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 15, 2016 10:43 am

What really makes it funny is when mental contortionists for Christianity, start to argue about partial/situational omnipotence, omniscisence and omnibenevolence.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: All-knowing, All-powerful & All-good

#5  Postby Fenrir » Dec 15, 2016 11:14 am

For me what makes it funny is that Epicurus gutted xianity before it even existed.

They've been trying to refute the "problem of evil" ever since but haven't managed to find a compelling solution.
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Re: All-knowing, All-powerful & All-good

#6  Postby LjSpike » Dec 15, 2016 4:51 pm

Fenrir wrote:For me what makes it funny is that Epicurus gutted xianity before it even existed.

They've been trying to refute the "problem of evil" ever since but haven't managed to find a compelling solution.

One solution is that some christian scholars just deny the existence of evil. We're all wrong, there isn't evil, everything's fine.
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Re: All-knowing, All-powerful & All-good

#7  Postby Alan B » Dec 15, 2016 7:05 pm

When discussing fictional arbiter's of 'good' and 'evil', one must first define 'good' and 'evil'.

I say 'fictional' because there is more than one 'god' in human history and if any one of them existed with it's alleged powers, then no other gods would exist and we would all know about it.
I have NO BELIEF in the existence of a God or gods. I do not have to offer evidence nor do I have to determine absence of evidence because I do not ASSERT that a God does or does not or gods do or do not exist.
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Re: All-knowing, All-powerful & All-good

#8  Postby scott1328 » Dec 16, 2016 2:48 pm

The fundagelicals I know get around the PoE by adopting the very worst kind of moral relativism: Divine Command theory, that which God ordains is by definition good.
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