Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

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Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#1  Postby Simon_Gardner » Mar 24, 2010 8:40 am

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Re: Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#2  Postby MoonLit » Mar 24, 2010 8:56 am

Initial police investigation suggested that Tekam Das Meghwar, early on Tuesday morning, entered the residential portion of the house, asking his wife, Pavi, to bring milk from a nearby shop. Investigators believe that taking advantage of solitary Tekam Das slit throats of his three daughters.


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Re: Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#3  Postby blackarmada » Mar 24, 2010 8:57 am

Nice to see idiots abound in all religions.
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若問此裡是如何,
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Re: Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#4  Postby Scarlett » Mar 24, 2010 9:12 am

Wasn't the guy just psychotic? I know alot of these child murders are put down to religion e.g. god spoke to them and told them to, but even without religion people kill their kids

One thing that puzzles me sometimes is, (maybe not in this case due to the statement about not even sacrificing animals to this particular god) the outcry from the religious country when something like this happens.

Look at America, deeply religious in large areas, but when someone kills their child, or allows their child to die, citing god told them to do it, or they were leaving it to god's will, they still get villified. Now these are the people who pray to win a football game, think the earth was created in 6 days and its less than 10,000 years old, they believe the horrors of the old testament is fact, yet they don't believe that god may have instructed these people to kill their child. Lets face it, child killing in the old testament was quite the thing to do
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Re: Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#5  Postby virphen » Mar 24, 2010 9:15 am

It's just sad.

As Paula says (more or less), this sort of thing is just evidence of a nutcase. It just happens that religions of all stripes attract nutcases... doesn't necessarily mean that Hunduism made this one.
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Re: Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#6  Postby Julia » Mar 24, 2010 10:25 pm

virphen wrote:It's just sad.

As Paula says (more or less), this sort of thing is just evidence of a nutcase. It just happens that religions of all stripes attract nutcases... doesn't necessarily mean that Hunduism made this one.


Yeah, religious delusions are rather common among psychotics. It makes me wonder if there isn't some primitive part of the brain having to do with woo and religion that is more activated during psychotic episodes.
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Re: Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#7  Postby virphen » Mar 24, 2010 10:29 pm

Julia wrote:
Yeah, religious delusions are rather common among psychotics. It makes me wonder if there isn't some primitive part of the brain having to do with woo and religion that is more activated during psychotic episodes.


My totally unscientific pet theory is that really disturbed minds are more likely to manifest themselves in religious and woo-ful (to coin a phrase) ways because that imagery is so prevalent in our culture. And when you think about it, a lot of that religious imagery is itself deranged (statues of crucified & tortured corpses, eating your god, fire and brimstone & the end of the world). It's powerful imagery, and bound to attract the demented.
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Re: Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#8  Postby jparada » Mar 26, 2010 3:16 am

Paula1 wrote:Wasn't the guy just psychotic? I know alot of these child murders are put down to religion e.g. god spoke to them and told them to, but even without religion people kill their kids

One thing that puzzles me sometimes is, (maybe not in this case due to the statement about not even sacrificing animals to this particular god) the outcry from the religious country when something like this happens.

Look at America, deeply religious in large areas, but when someone kills their child, or allows their child to die, citing god told them to do it, or they were leaving it to god's will, they still get villified. Now these are the people who pray to win a football game, think the earth was created in 6 days and its less than 10,000 years old, they believe the horrors of the old testament is fact, yet they don't believe that god may have instructed these people to kill their child. Lets face it, child killing in the old testament was quite the thing to do

The Old Testament explicitly forbids child sacrifice and names it an abhorrent practice
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Re: Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#9  Postby Tyrannical » Mar 26, 2010 3:49 am

Paula1 wrote:Lets face it, child killing in the old testament was quite the thing to do


With the amount of abortions we have in our modern society, I'm curious what they would think of our child killing practices?
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Re: Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#10  Postby Autumn Clouds » Mar 26, 2010 4:09 am


The Old Testament explicitly forbids child sacrifice and names it an abhorrent practice


Yea, right, how does these sound?:
Exodus 22:29-30: You must give me the firstborn of your sons. Do the same with your cattle and your sheep. Let them stay with their mothers for seven days, but give them to me on the eighth day.

Joshua 6:21
They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it - men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.

Genesis 22:2
Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."

Sure Abraham was stopped, but, the idea itself was not. The fact that Abraham would consider killing his own son for God, shows the extreme pshycological flaw, was it an act of compassion stoping the sacrifice?, It would be a much greater one, not asking him to even contemplate the idea.

Want animal sacrifice quotes?, I should probably quote the entire bible there.

What truly amazes me of all these things, is how, like Dawkins says, we give for granted all these attrocities as something that religion causes.
Religion should be banned. What if he killed the girl who would have developed a unifing theory of physics?. What if one of them was to develop the cure for cancer?.
We killed those girls, we silenced their voices.
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Re: Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#11  Postby jparada » Mar 26, 2010 7:41 am

Autumn Clouds wrote:

The Old Testament explicitly forbids child sacrifice and names it an abhorrent practice


Yea, right, how does these sound?:
Exodus 22:29-30: You must give me the firstborn of your sons. Do the same with your cattle and your sheep. Let them stay with their mothers for seven days, but give them to me on the eighth day.

Joshua 6:21
They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it - men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.

Genesis 22:2
Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."

Sure Abraham was stopped, but, the idea itself was not. The fact that Abraham would consider killing his own son for God, shows the extreme pshycological flaw, was it an act of compassion stoping the sacrifice?, It would be a much greater one, not asking him to even contemplate the idea.


About the passage from Exodus, you can find the relevant counterpart in Deuteronomy 15.19:

Set apart for the LORD your God every firstborn male of your herds and flocks. Do not put the firstborn of your oxen to work, and do not shear the firstborn of your sheep.

See how the ambiguous bit hinting at human sacrifice is lacking? that should tell you someting. OTOH, from Deuteronomy 12.31 we have:

You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

And again, in Deuteronomy 18.9-10:

When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. 10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in [a] the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,

If this isn't an indictment against human sacrifice, i don't know what it is. And i'm leaving out a couple more passages i can't find right now.

Want animal sacrifice quotes?, I should probably quote the entire bible there


Animal sacrifice is practiced in Judaism to this day, so i don't see the point on bringing the issue. Unless you're a vegan of course
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Re: Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#12  Postby Autumn Clouds » Mar 26, 2010 8:13 am

Animal sacrifice is practiced in Judaism to this day, so i don't see the point on bringing the issue. Unless you're a vegan of course


I'm not a vegan, I just respect life as it's so incredibly rare and beautiful.

And my friend, you just stated that God is schitzophrenic.

You CANT write a book of impecable moral behaviour and have parts contradicting each other.
A opposite to B.
Ok do A or you burn in hell.
Ok do B or you burn in hell.

What do you chose?, the one more convinient?, anyone you want?. This defies moral logic.
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Re: Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#13  Postby jparada » Mar 26, 2010 10:02 am

Autumn Clouds wrote:
Animal sacrifice is practiced in Judaism to this day, so i don't see the point on bringing the issue. Unless you're a vegan of course


I'm not a vegan, I just respect life as it's so incredibly rare and beautiful.

And my friend, you just stated that God is schitzophrenic.

You CANT write a book of impecable moral behaviour and have parts contradicting each other.
A opposite to B.
Ok do A or you burn in hell.
Ok do B or you burn in hell.

What do you chose?, the one more convinient?, anyone you want?. This defies moral logic.

In this case, you go with what is emphasized by the Bible. You never find accounts of human sacrifice tolerated by God further than Judges. From there on, every account of such practice ends with the perpretator punished, according to the law. Is the law what matters, not whether ole Abe is ordered to sacrifice his son or Joshua is to burn Jericho, people and everything inside (yes, it's horrific).

And i don't see how sacrificing an animal is disrespectful, given that you avoid to cause it excessive suffering. BTW, i stand corrected, Jews don't practice sacrifices to this day. I got a bit confused with Samaritans.
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Re: Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#14  Postby Autumn Clouds » Mar 26, 2010 10:43 am

In this case, you go with what is emphasized by the Bible.

That's relativism. If I wanted to justify human sacrifices I could use as an excuse any verse of the bible that justifies it. Or even worse, being imperfect as I am, I should strive to be like God. He's the largest recorded mass murderer of history, how about that?.

If it's horrific, why do you belive in it?, violence further than Judges you want?:
1SA 15:3, 7-8 "This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass ....' And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."
Got more if you want.

And i don't see how sacrificing an animal is disrespectful, given that you avoid to cause it excessive suffering

And yet i'm gonna burn in hell and you rejoice in heaven?.
But seariously, think about the animal sacrifices through, even the miniscule ammount of unnecesary suffering on behalf of creatures that have nothing to do with our madness is nothing short of cruelty.
But hey, after killing everyone in the entire world and every animal except 2 of each spicies, this is a banality right?
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Re: Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#15  Postby jparada » Mar 26, 2010 8:39 pm

That's relativism. If I wanted to justify human sacrifices I could use as an excuse any verse of the bible that justifies it.


Sure you could do it. Just as you can quote mine a famous scientist in such a way that seems to agree with your views, even if the opposite is true.

Or even worse, being imperfect as I am, I should strive to be like God.


No, you shouldn't. If you were to do such, you would be committing the sin of hubris. Have ever read the story of Adam and eve?

He's the largest recorded mass murderer of history, how about that?.


And he is the ONLY one with power over life and death, according to the Bible, forgot that?

If it's horrific, why do you belive in it?


I don't believe in it

violence further than Judges you want?:


I didn't say violence, i specifically referred to the practice of human sacrifice

1SA 15:3, 7-8 "This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass ....' And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."
Got more if you want.


Sure you can find more. But you will never find in the Bible a single passage enshrining those acts of violence as law. The Biblical commandent is clear, NOT TO KILL.

And yet i'm gonna burn in hell and you rejoice in heaven?.


Just for the record, I don't believe in the afterlife. Don't hold strong beliefs about God either.

But seariously, think about the animal sacrifices through, even the miniscule ammount of unnecesary suffering on behalf of creatures that have nothing to do with our madness is nothing short of cruelty.


Maybe, but I was replying initially to a commentary about how killing your children was a practice approved by the Bible. You were the one who brought the issue of animal sacrifice, which, whatever one may think, is not as universally repudiated as human sacrifice. Get over it.

But hey, after killing everyone in the entire world and every animal except 2 of each spicies, this is a banality right?


And the point here is?
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Re: Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#16  Postby Autumn Clouds » Mar 27, 2010 3:52 am


Sure you could do it. Just as you can quote mine a famous scientist in such a way that seems to agree with your views, even if the opposite is true.


I'm not trying to *make* it agree with my views, they're pretty absolute by themselves. If you take a scientists views and take them out of context, and manage to back your views up with evidence, then it's called science. Scientists don't claim to have the ultimate word, God does.

And he is the ONLY one with power over life and death, according to the Bible, forgot that?


The only one that can go unpunished you mean. The guy in this story had the same power didn't he?. If god existed as a human, he would have been sentenced to death rather swiftly, unless of course ironically he landed in a atheist predominant country, then he would only get life sentence.


No, you shouldn't. If you were to do such, you would be committing the sin of hubris. Have ever read the story of Adam and eve?


And yet, Jesus was God and he wanted us to be like him. :think:

Sure you can find more. But you will never find in the Bible a single passage enshrining those acts of violence as law. The Biblical commandent is clear, NOT TO KILL.


The biblical commandment is everything BUT clear.
Uhm... didn't he order Saul to kill in his name?. Woulden't you kill someone to save the lives of the ones you love?. And again, contradicting arguments. You say NOT TO KILL, but how about I quote God himself (jesus) the nicest dude on the bible asking to kill unbelievers in his name?:
Luke 19:27: "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me."
How can you interpretate that in someother way?, seems quite blunt to me.

which, whatever one may think, is not as universally repudiated as human sacrifice. Get over it.


Ok, i'll go shifting moral zeitgeist on this argument. Because it's not repudiated equally it dosen't mean it's right.
Would you tell those guys who didn't approve of slavery, to get over it?.
Would you have told a father who didn't want to give his 12 year old daughter into marriage to her rapist, to get over it?.
If we become comformistic, and do get over it, we would retard the progress of humanity, we should learn from history.
And my point with animal sacrifice, and the reason I hold nature in such a view (almost like a hippie :lol:) it's because it's harsh. These creatures face problems that we give for granted because we don't have to live with them. I'd recomend you watch a documentary about the life of a random animal, and see what I mean. If you're not ever vigilant, and just slip for a second, some predator will come and kill your children, and these is the least of their problems.
It's impossible not to respect that. And when we kill creatures just because you touched someone that had sex, well it seems rather stupid to me, we don't realize how far the concequences of our actions go.

And the point here is?


We're more loving and compassionate than God, since he clearly gives a fuck about everyone else. Do you know anyone that would kill the entire population of the world?.
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Re: Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#17  Postby jparada » Mar 27, 2010 6:23 am

Autumn Clouds wrote:
I'm not trying to *make* it agree with my views, they're pretty absolute by themselves. If you take a scientists views and take them out of context, and manage to back your views up with evidence, then it's called science. Scientists don't claim to have the ultimate word, God does.


Errrr.....no, quote mining is not science, is being dishonest. And i'm not adressing the truth claims of the Bible, i'm pointing out that the instances of violence in it are never enshrined into law. Human history is violent, is just fitting that a book about history (the history of Israel) depicts this violence in detail.

The only one that can go unpunished you mean. The guy in this story had the same power didn't he?. If god existed as a human, he would have been sentenced to death rather swiftly, unless of course ironically he landed in a atheist predominant country, then he would only get life sentence.


Or he would manage to raise himself to the top of the world, we can only speculate. But god is not human, and man shouldn't try to be like god. That's the whole point.

And yet, Jesus was God and he wanted us to be like him. :think:


Jesus was God? ask a Jew what he thinks about what you said. Irrelevant to the matter


The biblical commandment is everything BUT clear.
Uhm... didn't he order Saul to kill in his name?.


He ordered Saul to do so. Just like he ordered others to do so. But those commandments were never made into law, therefore you're not allowed to kill others unless commanded by god. And usually, if you claim so you will be called bullshit rather swiflty.

Woulden't you kill someone to save the lives of the ones you love?.


Self-defense is allowed. "killing" refers more specifically to murder.


And again, contradicting arguments. You say NOT TO KILL, but how about I quote God himself (jesus) the nicest dude on the bible asking to kill unbelievers in his name?:
Luke 19:27: "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me."
How can you interpretate that in someother way?, seems quite blunt to me.


Blatant quote mine. If you bother to check what comes before, you will notice that phrase is part of a parable. Jesus isn't commanding anything there. And again, ask a Jew if he thinks Jesus is god.

Ok, i'll go shifting moral zeitgeist on this argument. Because it's not repudiated equally it dosen't mean it's right.
Would you tell those guys who didn't approve of slavery, to get over it?.
Would you have told a father who didn't want to give his 12 year old daughter into marriage to her rapist, to get over it?.
If we become comformistic, and do get over it, we would retard the progress of humanity, we should learn from history.
And my point with animal sacrifice, and the reason I hold nature in such a view (almost like a hippie :lol:) it's because it's harsh. These creatures face problems that we give for granted because we don't have to live with them. I'd recomend you watch a documentary about the life of a random animal, and see what I mean. If you're not ever vigilant, and just slip for a second, some predator will come and kill your children, and these is the least of their problems.
It's impossible not to respect that. And when we kill creatures just because you touched someone that had sex, well it seems rather stupid to me, we don't realize how far the concequences of our actions go.


You have pointed to practices which were allowed on the OT but are arguably demeaning to human dignity. And which were eventually abolished thanks to people who derived their views on human dignity from the same Bible you seem so fast to condemn. But let's concede the point on here, don't feel like arguing in defense of animal sacrifice.


We're more loving and compassionate than God, since he clearly gives a fuck about everyone else.



Anyone who has observed the behavior of kids will get to the conclusion that humans are anything but loving and compassionate

Do you know anyone that would kill the entire population of the world?.


Sure there have been a few, they just haven't managed out of sheer lack of opportunity.

P.D: so far, i feel the thread has derailed somewhat, my initial point was that human sacrifice is NOT the thing to do according to the OT.
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Re: Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#18  Postby Autumn Clouds » Mar 27, 2010 8:06 am

P.D: so far, i feel the thread has derailed somewhat, my initial point was that human sacrifice is NOT the thing to do according to the OT.


I agree, let's get back to the subject at hand even though some of the latter points you presented contradicts reasearch and evidence.

Errrr.....no, quote mining is not science, is being dishonest. And i'm not adressing the truth claims of the Bible, i'm pointing out that the instances of violence in it are never enshrined into law. Human history is violent, is just fitting that a book about history (the history of Israel) depicts this violence in detail.


I never said quote mining is scientific, of course it's not, since science is not written in quotes unlike the bible. It's written in theories so I assumed that's what you ment.
My problem with this statement is that at first it's commanded some forms of human sacrifice, mostly as punishment, but still. Then it's commanded not too. I understand the evolution of this moral concept but the point I'm trying to make is that they're both the word of God. They're both commandments of God, and it dosen't states anywhere that we should disregard the most violent books of the bible, since that would be admiting God changed his mind.
If the bible is not supposed to be quoted, then why is it written in quotes?, why preachers, preach with quotes and reflection on them?.

Self-defense is allowed. "killing" refers more specifically to murder.

I never said self-defense. I don't want to create a complex scenario to analyze this point. What I mean is that no moral law whatsoever is absolute, there are always exceptions in which the right thing to do, would be break the law.

Blatant quote mine. If you bother to check what comes before, you will notice that phrase is part of a parable. Jesus isn't commanding anything there. And again, ask a Jew if he thinks Jesus is god.

Sorry about the Jesus postings, I'll stick to jewish philosophy from now on. And for the quote, it's still aplicable in the parable. It more or less states what will happen to people when jesus returns, if we don't belive in him we will be killed and sent to hell. It's curious that he asked people to kill in his name, instad of saying that they will be killed by him.

You have pointed to practices which were allowed on the OT but are arguably demeaning to human dignity. And which were eventually abolished thanks to people who derived their views on human dignity from the same Bible you seem so fast to condemn.

Actually this dosen't seem to be the case throughout history. I'm not talking about animal sacrifice here, I mean human attrocities enabled by the bible. I stand with Russell's opinion in this subject:
"You find as you look around the world that every single bit of progress in humane feeling, every improvement in the criminal law, every step toward the diminution of war, every step toward better treatment of the colored races, or every mitigation of slavery, every moral progress that there has been in the world, has been consistently opposed by the organized churches of the world. I say quite deliberately that the Christian religion, as organized in its churches, has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. "
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Re: Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#19  Postby Julia » Mar 27, 2010 2:28 pm

jparada wrote:
Animal sacrifice is practiced in Judaism to this day, so i don't see the point on bringing the issue. Unless you're a vegan of course


I don't think so.

http://judaism.about.com/od/abcsofjudai ... s_stop.htm

excerpt:

Thus, once King Solomon completed and dedicated the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, animal sacrifices were offered only in the Temple. It would be a sin to offer sacrifices in any other place. And once the Temple was destroyed in 70 CE, no more animal sacrifices were offered.
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Re: Hindu priest sacrifices his three infant girls

#20  Postby theidiot » Mar 27, 2010 2:54 pm

Julia wrote:

Yeah, religious delusions are rather common among psychotics. It makes me wonder if there isn't some primitive part of the brain having to do with woo and religion that is more activated during psychotic episodes.


What it is, is a desire for a grand legitimization for a spectacular act. Think of the guy who flew his plain into the IRS building a few months ago, he views his act as a part of grand mission, hoping to fuel something dramatic by his martyrdom.

Ted Kaczynski claimed "he wanted society to return to a time when technology was not a threat to its future, asserting that "the Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race". This is how he legitimized his targeting of universities and airline industry.

Or take the French Revolution, with its Reign of Terror, and the guillotines, that legitimized it's thirst for violence as for the sake of rationalism and the enlightenment.

The only reason we see religion used so frequently by psychotics, is because we forget that religion was once the language of all human ambition. Modernity has offered us alternative languages, and we see it used in the same sort of way, to justify a man's desire for cruelty and violence.

A bear will kill its cub. Chimpanzees have been observed cannibalizing infants, and carrying out extermination wars. They are just feeding their desires. Our instinctual desires are not only for the pretty stuff, but also for the cruel and violent, but being creatures of self-awareness we desire for a legitimization for appeasing these innate desires.

I was watching a film the other day, that closed with a violent scene of vengeance, beautifully done. Like an erotic dance of brutality. Throats were cut, men were continually stabbed, limbs were torn, bodies mutilated, and the girl I was watching it with slipped, and said, "Ooaah, I want to do that.", like a child watching other children on a merry-go-around, desiring to ride as well.
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